I am sure this has been answered a dozen times on here but I haven't read the travel section in quite a while and am going to Botswana the first of June. Okay, I know I should put little TSA locks on the ammo case, but what about my gun case? I'd appreciate any input as it seems to be different every three or four years which is about as often as I can afford to go.

This is going to cause an uproar, I'm sure, but the below is from the horse's mouth. That said, before anyone/everyone points to the "person" who can have a key, in my opinion, "person" does not include a TSA employee. So, what do I do? I use (and have used at least 50 times domestically and 25 times internationally) a TSA lock... but I also have with me a regular lock just in case :

quote:

Subject: In Response to your inquiry.‏


In Response to your inquiry.
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me 2/10/16 Flag this message
To: me

For posterity.

Ernest
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tsatcc_do_not_reply@senture.com (tsatcc_do_not_reply@senture.com) Add to contacts 2/10/16 Flag this message
To: properfistmele@hotmail.com
tsatcc_do_not_reply@senture.com
Thank you for contacting the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Contact Center regarding travel with firearms using TSA-recognized locks.

On flights that originate in the United States, passengers may transport a firearm in accordance with 49 CFR §1540.111 under the following conditions:

• The firearm must be unloaded;
• it must be in checked, not carry-on, baggage;
• it must be in a locked, hard-sided container; and
• it must be declared to the airline.

Travelers may use any kind or type of lock for securing firearm cases, including
TSA-recognized locks. However, TSA does not recommend or endorse any specific brand or type of lock to use on firearm containers.

We encourage passengers to familiarize themselves with TSA Travel Tips at http:\\www.tsa.gov\travel\travel-tips. The Web site has information about prohibited and permitted items, the screening process and procedures, and guidance for special considerations that may assist them in preparing for air travel. Passengers may also search the Web site’s database of prohibited and permitted items using the “When I fly can I bring my… feature on the homepage of www.tsa.gov.

We hope this information is helpful.

TSA Contact Center

Just last month, after customs and gun inspection in ATL after flying from Johannesburg, I took my firearm case to TSA for the domestic portion of the flight home. I had taken off the TSA lock in customs and had it in my carry on. In a hurry, I just used the TuffPac integral lock instead of rummaging around in the mess of the carry on. I was in the security line when the TSA guy found me and told me I'd have to return to his location and open the case for him. I did and he asked me, since he saw the hasp available for the TSA lock, why I didn't use one and not take the risk of their forcing entry to the TuffPac. I opened the case and after his inspection, re-locked it with a TSA lock. Maybe the TSA guy had read my email, above?

Dick,

You must place a regular combination or key lock on your gun case. TSA locks are fine on all the rest of you luggage and ammo case.

Mark

Guys,

Seems I stand corrected. You can use ANY type of lock on your gun case. The regs do say something to the effect that you can be the only one with access to your guns but I guess that does not include TSA per Ernest's e-mail from TSA above. I would caution folks wanting to use TSA locks on their gun cases to look for the heaviest duty ones they offer. I used some of the first TSA locks that came out early on, they where not adequate and bent up to the point they could not be opened.

I appreciate Ernest bringing this to our attention as sharing pertinent info is one of the benefits of AR.

Mark

From 49 CFR, Section 1540.111 (c):
(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under § 1562.23 of this chapter:
(1) Any loaded firearm(s).
(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—
(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;
(ii) The firearm is unloaded;
(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and
(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.
(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.

The language of the Federal Regulations seems clear to me. The language is plain, simple and straightforward. Only the passenger retains the key or combination to the gun case. The Regulations do not say: Only the passenger and TSA retains the key or combination. There is no discussion about the definition of a person here in the regulations, other than a person is defined as an individual, of which a TSA employee would be. I have never heard or read anything in the Federal Regulations where TSA employees have been defined as non-persons and there is nothing in the regulations that even defines a non-person. A TSA lock does not meet the Regulation's specific requirements of only the passenger having the key or the combination to the lock. Ernest and I have amicably discussed this issue in private and we are good friends. I highly respect him. But on this issue, we have agreed to amicably disagree. I, for one, will still lock my gun cases with non TSA locks until the regulations of 49 CFR have been amended or changed to specifically reflect that TSA employees may retain the key or combination to the locks used on my gun case. After Ernest and I discussed this matter, and he provided me with a copy of the email a few months back, I contacted TSA in writing and asked them to provide me with detailed justification for their position, in light of the clear regulations found in 49 CFR. TSA never responded back to my written inquiry. Therefore, I have chosen to not rely on the TSA Contact Center email. TSA only gains access to inspect my guns when I give them my key and when they have first notified me that they wish to inspect them. This has been the standard operating procedure for as long as I have been transporting firearms across the world and here in the States. You are all certainly free to follow your own conscience and directions.

I would imagine the Federal Regulations would trump any opinion of a TSA help desk flunky.

Regular lock on the firearm, tsa lock on the ammo box inside the checked luggage.

For Africa I have a small pelican that I put in my checked luggage for ammo. Some people have been asked to check their ammo separately. I'm prepared, just in case.

Being anal retentive and paranoid (your aren't paranoid if they are really out to get you) I use TSA locks on my duffels (I'm starting to be persuaded by the folks here that use hard shell cases).

And I use Master locks on my gun case. Since I transit through Amsterdam, I use a Fed Ex. stick on clear envelope to make my Dutch Permit easily accessible, and I include a letter that informs the officials that I have a spare set of locks in the case in the event they feel the need to cut them.

I've never had anyone cut my locks or use my spare locks. I buy Master locks in groups of four with the same keys. Wrap the spares in bubble wrap and secure them behind the butt of one rifle so they cannot damage anything.

My duffel was checked by TSA as I was going to Argentina in March. It had a TSA lock on it. They failed to relock it and the zipper was open four inches upon claiming it in Córdoba. Yes, I got the cute little card, but I guess none of my clothes fit all those who "inspected."

As others have said, lock your guns up and be the only with a key or combination.

Yes, I will soon move to hard side like lavaca. It's just hard with nice, expensive duffel bags.

Thanks.

When my gun case was taken for inspection by TSA two days ago, I just unlocked my Master locks and told the TSA to re-lock them when they were done inspecting.

I have had TSA remove (cut off) non-TSA locks when the gun case and I were separated. I know what the regs read, but it happens.

One thing I do that may help is this: when I check in on my initial flight I ask TSA to put TSA tape on the gun case. This way any inspectors down the line can see it has already been inspected. For me it has been easier when transiting other airports or countries on the way to my final destination.
Cal

The reality is that TSA personnel are often not the cream-of-the-crop when it comes to knowing and following regulations.

I was once going through security at Chicago O'Hare, and my carryon luggage had non-TSA locks on them (I lock my luggage when staying in hotels.) The TSA agent, told me to remove the locks. Since this was a muti-compartmented luggage and each compartment had its own lock, I asked him "Which one?".

Trying to act cool (he was a 20-something young man), he replied "You choose." So I promptly unlocked the compartment that held all my dirty underwear. He waved me on through security without any more discussion.

I have a gun case with 6 separate locking rings. I guess I could put non-TSA locks on 3 of those rings and TSA locks on the other three. Hopefully at least 3 of the locks will still be usable at the end of my travels.


BTW On my last trip coming from RSA, the idiots at Jo'burg destroyed the lock rings on my checked in luggage (an expensive London Fog), because rather than cutting the locks, they just busted the zipper rings. I had used non-TSA locks because I had several expensive items in the luggage. What arses.

BH63

The actual regulation mandates that the lock on the firearm be one for which only the owner has a key or combination. I follow the regulation and use a keyed masterlock.

However, I also carry with me a printed copy of the regulations when I am checking in, as on several occasions, I have had the TSA agent (or Port Authority policeman in NYC) state that the lock on the case had to be one that TSA could access.

Cal Pappas's suggestion is excellent --- ask the TSA to put TSA tape on the gun case. Seems to work to calm down inpsectors down the line.

^

That is a really great idea! Keep a copy of both the airlines and TSAs requirements. Then at least you have something to fall back on when confronted by an ignorant employee.

BH63

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cal pappas:
I have had TSA remove (cut off) non-TSA locks when the gun case and I were separated. I know what the regs read, but it happens.

So far I haven't had this happen, but I do worry about it. Been using a case where you cut the middle layer of foam to match the shape of the guns lately. I also cut out two areas and place 2 unlocked master locks next to the guns. I buy a 4-pack of locks which all use the same key - 2 lock the case, 2 inside the case, unlocked. If TSA ever does cut my case open, hopefully they'll be professional enough to lock it again with the extra ones.

^
That's not a bad idea either.

Lot's of smart folks on this forum.

BH63

These Master Lock model #630 are lightweight billet aluminum with a good long steel shackle.
I've used them to lock my Pelican firearm cases on many overseas trips with various airlines.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Mas...ock-630DHC/100137147