I just sent an assistant to customs to get a new 4457 for two of my rifles for an upcoming trip. Much to my surprise, they were told that customs could not issue the 4457 to them. Due to new rules just enacted, I would have to go. In addition, I would have to bring my passport and travel documents.

This is news to me. Has anyone else experienced this?

My understanding is you must appear in person as the owner, you will be asked if you are the owner. I have always had to appear in person.

quote:

Originally posted by Dall85:
My understanding is you must appear in person as the owner, you will be asked if you are the owner. I have always had to appear in person.

Yep, this is correct. They want to run your drivers license thru all of the databases to see if you are "wanted" anywhere. One of the officers at the DFW CBP office told me it was amazing the number of dumbasses that have a warrant somewhere or are convicted felons come in there to get a 4457.

I would guess that I have sent my kids or my assistant 20 times or more over the years. I am surprised.

I always fly out of N.Ky/Cinnci the customs officers will not issue, at least to me, a 4457 in advance. Twice I have went up there a week before departure, and they just look at me and tell me they will do it the date of th flight to get there early.

I will say this they do work efficiently and once put a rouge Delta check in lady in her place.

Anyone using this airport, is there a specific person or magic words I need to use to get Customs to issue prior to departure?

I was always told you had to appear in person with ID. The CBP site says you can come in advance and use the 4457 multiple times. Many countries and airlines require a copy of the 4457 days to months in advance. Getting it the day of your flight could stop you from being allowed to take your firearm with you.

It appears as if all government offices are required to have at least one jerk that looks for reasons to avoid doing his/her job. I have had to ask for a supervisor and/or go to Spanish every time I have gone to the Fort Lauderdale CBP in order to get friendly assistance. Their resident "toad in the road" is supposed to retire this month. That jerks typical excuses and responses were:
- I need to see your itinerary first
- we cannot issue until 10 business days before your flight
- we need proof the firearms belong to you
- who says you need this?
- do you have your in country permits?
- is that a machine gun?
- why do you think you need to kill animals?
- we cannot do this today
- I don't think this should be our job


I just smile and say "I would like to speak to a supervisor." I have always received efficient and friendly service from that point on.



Safe travels.................Larry

Damn. I have used the same 4457 in some cases over 20 years.

As to what LHeym500 said, when I called the McCarran International Airport here in Las Vegas a month or so ago about getting the new 4457s, the gentleman on the phone at US Customs and Border Protection told me that I couldn't get mine until the day of the flight. I told him that I had always got them long before the flight, and that I had to have the 4457s early in order to obtain the proper firearms permits in advance from the countries that I was visiting. He then told me to come in that very day, which I did. I had never been told before that telephone conversation that I could not get them until the same day of the flight, and I think that that is something that various individuals at US Customs and Border Protection make up as they go. By the way Larry, I have always had to go in personally and present i.d. to them before the 4457s were issued. Don't get rid of your old 4457s, as this requirement is only with South Africa, not the rest of the world, and the old ones are still good in all of the other countries, until further notice.

Frightening bureaucracy!!!!

The whole 4457 is to prove you took the article out of the country and thus when you return are not subject to duty (import taxes)! What these CBP people are is ignorant power mongers!

This is just wrong!!!

Regards, D. Nelson

You can use a 4457 if you drive to Canada or Mexico, so getting the day of flight makes no sense. Like was stated, you have to have that well in advance to get foreign gun permits. These guys saying it must be day of flight are absolutely making this up. I have dozens of these forms and have always gotten them when it was convenient and never shown any travel documents, only ID.

The agent told my assistant that they had new rules just issued.

I agree this makes no sense at all for a variety of reasons.

I am insanely busy. I have no time at all. I have a ridiculous amount of business travel between now and the time we leave. Finding time to go will be damn near impossible.

Government in action.

quote:

The whole 4457 is to prove you took the article out of the country and thus when you return are not subject to duty (import taxes)! What these CBP people are is ignorant power mongers!

This is just wrong!!!

Yes Ma'am! It needs to be fixed!


.

Larry: What new rules were issued? By the way, I did not take in my old 4457s, as that does you absolutely nothing. You still need to fill out the new 4457 form and go through the motions of bringing in the firearms or other items for inspection and verification. Giving them the old 4457s or turning them in is not required, and again, they are still good in all other countries except South Africa until other countries make a similar demand or requirement, which I seriously doubt that they will do. We're just dealing with South African bureaucracy at its finest.

I do not know. They told my assistant that they had new rules that had just changed things in the last few days. That is all I know. I am too busy to go down there right now.

I just registered 2 rifles today! Very pleasant guy. The rules according to him are:
1. Photo I.D.
2. Owner must bring in the weapon.

Took me about 10 minutes.

I just called ahead to make sure that they had someone available at the counter. Walked in, showed my drivers license and that was about it. In and out in 10 minutes. This is a small office/airport though (Grand Rapids Michigan) maybe that was the difference. TSA agents were actually quite pleasant (probably have not been trained in "big city" rudeness).

I go to the small office in the freight building at BWI. Very pleasant guy who is interested in guns. Photo ID with weapon and you are out in 10 minutes.

quote:

Originally posted by Tracker49:
I just called ahead to make sure that they had someone available at the counter. Walked in, showed my drivers license and that was about it. In and out in 10 minutes. This is a small office/airport though (Grand Rapids Michigan) maybe that was the difference. TSA agents were actually quite pleasant (probably have not been trained in "big city" rudeness).

TSA has NOTHING to do with 4457 issuance- CBP does that. TSA are the high school dropouts at the airport that pretend they know what they're doing in screening passengers.

Took in my 470 to get a fresh 4457, along with an old Greener SxS shotgun that hasn't been to Africa before. Have used the Scottsdale (AZ) airport office in the past, but called ahead and was told to go instead to the office next to the big airport at Sky Harbor in Phoenix. So....went as required to the less convenient facility with some concern that these folks would know what was up with the form, and not wanting to alarm people with firearms. TuffPak works wonders in that it truly looks like golf clubs!

Was out in 5 minutes. CBP staff was professional and courteous, and happy to be of service. Maybe I got lucky, but I think the local culture and how guns are viewed really does get translated to the attitude of the local CBP office as well.

Arizona and Texas are great places for hunters to live, IMO.

I am just back from Customs. They were nice & pleasant. I asked a few pointed questions politely. It did not take long.

The gentleman from Customs says this all stems from some people exporting guns which are used against our troops. I can understand that.

One of the questions asked of me made no sense at all given the stated reason for these changes. They wanted to know what the guns were worth. That seems odd give the stated reason for these changes.

I told the man from Customs that my understanding was that these forms were to document ownership of the item prior to leaving the country in order to avoid duty upon returning. He agreed. I then inquired what would happen if I was driving to Canada or Mexico and there were no flights booked? I got no answer.

Something else is gong on here. I am not sure what it is. There has to be another answer.

I am tempted to send someone down with a high dollar camera and see what they say.

Larry

This was what I texted you about. When I went to customs they also asked for driver license and travel details. The flights I was leaving and returning on.

I had not purchased my ticket and bought it while I was at customs.

The custom agent said when I returned they may run the guns thru their database and I should have enough time between flights.

Since no guns are recoded leaving the country I don't know who they match it up.

Mike

quote:

Since no guns are recoded leaving the country I don't know who they match it up

I asked a customs official in Atlanta, on my return from Africa, what data base they using to run the serial #'s on my guns. He told me it was their data base of stolen guns. He also told me that they have had hunters returning from overseas with guns that were in the database and the guns were confiscated.

I then asked if anyone was actually dumb enough to take a stolen gun out of the country. He then told me that every case he was aware of it was due to the hunter buying a used gun that, unknown to the him, had previously been reported as stolen.

I have heard a story of someone returning with a double that was reported stolen. They have obtained it legitimately so they thought. Quite the surprise.

The ONLY reason for a list is to Tax you or take something away.

Some of my clients just had a bad experience. Check in at Raleigh and customs office told them that 4457 had to be signed at JFK. Equipment failure on connection to JFK from RDU and missed South African flight to RSA. They had to get guns and carry them through JFK to get 4457 signed. Next flight to RSA was through London. I told them to simply ship guns back to me because they would not get firearms through London. They wanted to give it a try. Agents kept all guns in London for three weeks and they just picked them up from customs office here at RDU. I called the Raleigh customs office. They told me to now bring all of our documents and guns to the office at the airport 12 days or less before our flight to get 4457 signed. It is a real pain. I have a group leaving in one week and they are not happy about all of the extra work. This all came to play in the last two years and if there is no opposition from PHASA, NRA or SCI it could continue to get worst. The rest of the permit systems is extremely time consuming. Everyone who operates in Africa needs to start purchasing more quality guns because it is not worth the aggravation. Seems now that even the gun permit guys in RSA do not know all of the current rules.

I also got asked the value of my rifle when getting a new form, which I thought very odd.

Got the form without issue, but it was a quite different experience than when I did it a few months ago prior to the RSA "new rules."

Seems that more customs agents are making up the rules as they go. As to Capt Purvis' post, where does it say in the regulations that you cannot get a 4457 customs form anytime, and where does it say that it cannot be signed by all parties at the time that you get it? It's supposed to be signed and stamped at that time by US Customs and dated to verify the items on the form. We really do need SCI, the NRA and others to get this bullsh-t straightened out. How could anyone apply for a pre-approved permit according to their self imposed rules? Totally assinine. And asking the value? Really? Nothing on the form as to value. US Customs agents are out of control.