Still want to fly SAA? It's your choice...

[URL=http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2378385,00.html]

and

http://southafrica-pig.blogspot.com/2008/08/saa-shortag...-accident-fears.html

WOW! THAT IS SCARY SHIT!
THANKS FOR THE POST

Guys, I leave Saturday from Dulles, thru Jo'berg to Lusaka and this kind of stuff is pretty disturbing. I'm not a "fearless flyer" by any means, but I'm not going to take a boat to Africa either. Isn't there anyone who has good things to say about SAA? I know when I flew 30 years ago, things were better than they are now. "Stewardesses"...not "Flight Attendents" were nearly always friendly, helpful and constantly smiling.
OK, that's history....now just get me there safely without intentionally pi$$ing me off for some stupid reason.
I really don't find that to be too much to ask for a $2000+ plane ticket...or is it.

Just would be nice to hear that folks got there and the gear happened to get there too!

Oh well........

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

OK Garby I will help you out. I have flown on SAA three times over and since I am still walking and talking I made it safely, so did all my stuff.

Have a safe trip.

Little doubt SAA isn't the airline it once was but don't let all this crap scare you. The flight is long no matter whom you fly with an uncomfortable too unless you have the bucks to do the upgrade.
I'm the king of late luggage arrivals an that wasn't only with SAA. Have your luggage claim check scanned prior to boarding, plan as few connections as possible an cross your fingers. That's all any of us really can do.

Garby, I was scared to death to get on SAA this past July of 08 because of some of the posts on this website. There have been a couple other posts which jetdrvr was involved in on here where he warned against using SAA. From check in until I got to JoBurg the flight was much better than I thought it would be. In retrospect I did a lot of worrying for nothing. The flight attendants were courteous and the flight went smooth there and back.
Now I don't know what goes on with the mechanics of an aircraft but I would hope the U.S. would not allow a safe carrier into our Country.
One recommendation is on the flight back get to the airport with plenty of time. It seems the check in process in South Africa takes a bit longer (lines) than the U.S.
Have fun and good hunting.

Even the best airlines can have problems. My biggest gripe about SAA is they fly that stupid Airbus, crappy plane. I decided to fly thru Germany this fall. Good luck on your trip, I'm sure everything will be fine.

Thanks, gents.....ever have one of those days when it seems like 30 hours isn't enough and you want to be so excited 'cause you're headed to ZAMBIA TO HUNT DANGEROUS GAME and then you read something that just seems to pi$$ on your parade?...welcome to my world. I appreciate the good vibes.....my negative thoughts will clear.

Thanks.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

quote:

Originally posted by joedjr:
Garby, I was scared to death to get on SAA this past July of 08 because of some of the posts on this website. There have been a couple other posts which jetdrvr was involved in on here where he warned against using SAA. From check in until I got to JoBurg the flight was much better than I thought it would be. In retrospect I did a lot of worrying for nothing. The flight attendants were courteous and the flight went smooth there and back.
Now I don't know what goes on with the mechanics of an aircraft but I would hope the U.S. would not allow a safe carrier into our Country.
One recommendation is on the flight back get to the airport with plenty of time. It seems the check in process in South Africa takes a bit longer (lines) than the U.S.
Have fun and good hunting.

Maintenance issues have almost nothing to do with whether a passenger has an enoyable flight or not. To quote a friend of mine, the passengers won't know there is a problem until there is a problem and that may well be too late.

That said, I'm flying SAA to Joburg next month. In retrospect I wish I had spent the extra money and time for a flight through Frankfurt and another airline. I considered it when I had Kathi make the reservations, I wish I'd considered it more. Dying is not one of my real fears, but dying because someone else is negligent or poorly trained is a real shame.

Note to self: no more SAA flights.

I've flown SAA, KLM (Northwest), Delta an BA over to Africa an they all were long miserable flights. KLM was the worst hands down went thru Amsterdam got 4 hours into the flight an had mechanical problems needed to drop fuel and return to Amsterdam. When I finally landed in DAR my luggage was 2 days late.
I'd hate to think of all the miles I've flown inside the US on all the major airlines that the aircraft should've been grounded for safety reasons. Or all the times my bags have arrived late,some I'm still waiting on.

At one time in the 80's and 90's SAA was one of the best airlines you could fly. Clean, comfortable with a great attitude. Today, I would not walk under the wing of one of their a/c...it might fall off and kill you!

I have flown SAA twice. Once on the 747 and once on the airbus. I arrived with my luggage both times and didn't plummet into the ocean. That's about all the good things I have to say about SAA.
I flew Delta on my last trip. I arrived with my luggage and didn't plummet into the ocean. But...the seats were wider, had more leg room, the food was better, the staff was tremendously more helpful and professional, overall it was a much better experience considering what a long long long long long flight it is.
All of the other airlines will have to screw up in a major way before I fly SAA again. JMHO and it's worth what you paid for it.

I would have much preferred to fly Delta; Atlanta-Jo'berg or thru Europe....anything but SAA. However, my final destination is Lusaka and with my hunt dates and firearms transfer, I decided with Kathi to take the Dulles-Jo'berg-Lusaka route. I felt that by booking thru to Lusaka I had the best chance to have the bags arrive with me. Plus, traveling alone, I had little interest in "sight-seeing".

Thanks for the thoughts......now start the prayers!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Having flown professionally for 38 years all over the world and having deadheaded on at least two dozen air carriers, I have a bit of experience in this area, and I posted the links simply FWIW, as the heading says.

Passengers usually don't know a pop rivet from a pressure regulator and could care less, as long as the seats are comfortable, the food passes muster, and the flight attendants are civil.

Pilots view an aircraft for what it it: an extremely complex machine that is occasionally pushed to its limits, and we could care less about seat width, cabin service or decor. We want to know that a major component isn't going to fail four hours out over the pond and make it impossible for us to arrive safely at any destination.

So those of you who judge an airline by the decor and cabin service criteria are terribly in the dark. An airplane is a highly complex machine that requires skilled and continuous scheduled maintenance. Nothing is more important than the mechanical integrity of the machine, because machines break constantly and the people who maintain them should be well qualified for their jobs.

I, also, flew SAA many times during the 90's before affirmative action begin the process of degradation. It was a great airline. I flew cargo contracts for SAA for a year out of Capetown and Joberg, so I am more than just casually familiar with what the airline used to be and what it has become.

Fly who you want to fly.

I won't get on SAA again.

FWIW...

isn't black economic empowerment and affirmative action a wonderful thing? at the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

JetDrvr,

I have multiple trips to RSA, all on SAA, including my most recent hunt this past June in Limpopo Province. EVERY one of them has been flawless. Anyone may make claims about safety issues but these are, of course, unverifyable and, therefore, largely speculation.

Based on your historical pattern of SAA-bashing on this forum, I question whether you have some alterior motive or personal vendetta. With all of the changes in RSA during recent times, it would not surprise me to hear that there are people out there with personal agendas for one reason or another. Of course, this is speculation on my part...

As far as those things that are verifyable such as the attentiveness of service staff, the adminstration of check-in and ticketing, in-flight amenities, on-time performance, baggage handling, etc. ALL of these has been completely satisfactory in my experience - - - certainly on par with other carriers - - - and I have flown all over the world on a wide range of airlines.

FWIW, I'd fly SAA again to RSA without hesitation.

Mustbhuntn:

Just re-read your post.....sure am glad you didn't plummet......sorry that just caught me funny.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Garby,
I have flown SAA three times and made it along with my luggage every time.....besides the seating on the airbus, I remember there was always at least one flight attendant that needed a good "straightening up" by the time we landed.

FWIW, our SAA flight segments from JFK to Joburg to Windhoek were WAY better than the Delta segments from Anchorage to JFK.

I think the point of this thread is relating to aircraft saftey! Baggage delivery and cabin cumfort mean nothing if the tail section falls off half way across the atlantic! BTW people say the Tinanic was a beautiful ship...

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
. . . relating to aircraft saftey! . . . BTW people say the Tinanic was a beautiful ship...

I agree with SAFETY!

I admit that I am a horror to share a flight with. The first time I flew with Jim to Namibia he wasn’t sure he’d be able to shoot anything since, for nearly the duration of the trip, I had squeezed the blood and all of the feeling out of his right arm from my death grip.

Stuff breaks, things fail, humans make mistakes. In day to day logistics, it’s no big deal. Just recognize, correct and learn from it. However, at 35,000 feet over open water it’s a real big deal.

I would gladly sacrifice aesthetics for a fully functioning craft. And since I have to achieve a level of intoxication that would cause me to scarcely notice a plane crash, it makes no difference what my surroundings are.

If SAA keeps spiraling down the toilet, I’ll pay more and fly another carrier.

When I lived in Southern Maryland I used to commute around the DC and Baltimore Beltways everyday to work. That was scarier than any plane flight I've ever been on!

quote:

Originally posted by Muggles:
JetDrvr,

I have multiple trips to RSA, all on SAA, including my most recent hunt this past June in Limpopo Province. EVERY one of them has been flawless. Anyone may make claims about safety issues but these are, of course, unverifyable and, therefore, largely speculation.

Based on your historical pattern of SAA-bashing on this forum, I question whether you have some alterior motive or personal vendetta. With all of the changes in RSA during recent times, it would not surprise me to hear that there are people out there with personal agendas for one reason or another. Of course, this is speculation on my part...

As far as those things that are verifyable such as the attentiveness of service staff, the adminstration of check-in and ticketing, in-flight amenities, on-time performance, baggage handling, etc. ALL of these has been completely satisfactory in my experience - - - certainly on par with other carriers - - - and I have flown all over the world on a wide range of airlines.

FWIW, I'd fly SAA again to RSA without hesitation.

Don't let your imagination get away from you. I could care less about SAA and have no particular ax to grind with them or anyone else.

American travelers are accustomed to flying on aircraft domestically that are maintained to strict standards. African carriers, who, the last time I looked, accounted for around fifty percent of worldwide airline fatalities, aren't.

Most pilots could care less about passengers. You're just a form of cargo stuffed into the back of the aircraft. You'e the revenue freight that pays our salaries.

You, as passengers, have no idea about the incredible complexity that is a modern jet aircraft.

An aircraft is composed of a multiplicity of systems, electronic flght information systems, cockpit instrumentation, hydraulic, fuel, engine and generator oil, pnuematic, multiple electrical systems of varying voltages, and mechanical systems. These systems operate within a delicate balance to keep your butts safely aloft so you can enjoy your ride to your dream destination. These systems require highly skilled personnel to maintain them and highly skilled personnel to operate the aircraft with all its subordinate systems. When one component in a system fails because of shoddy maintenance or ignorance on the part of the mechanic who got his job, not because of his skills and experience, but because he belonged to a particular political affiliation, then bad things can happen. The failure of one system, as in, for example, the United Air Lines Souix City crash, that system failure can and often does lead to adjacent system failures, often with catastrophic results.

Bottom line is I want to know for an absolute certainty that the people who maintain my aircraft, whether I am flying it or riding it, possess more than just the minimum qualifications to perform their duties. Only a fool would knowingly board an aircraft that he has been warned has not been maintained to the highest standards. SAA's standards have been substantially degraded. Take it or leave it, but that's the truth, and whether or not you get a comfortable seat or like the decor or like the food or whether or not your baggage arrive with you has absolutely nothing to do with flight safety or systems integrity.

My post is simply a warning that the previously high maintenance and training standards of SAA have been substiantially lowered for political reasons, and therefore the airline has become much less safe than they once were. Like I've said, anyone who flies on an African Carrier, and I have flown on many, having worked in Africa off and on for many years, is literally taking their lives in their hands. The numbers bear me out, but don't ask me for them. I could care less, and you also have access to Google.

Do what you want. Fly whom you want. I have posted these warnings to the general membership for their general use. I could care less if any or all the membership flies SAA. After logging 18,000 hours in a career spanning 38 years, I know what I'm talking about. Take it any way you want. Fly anyone you want to fly. Doesn't bother me a bit, but I'm riding either an American or European carrier down to Africa, the next time I go. Because of SAA's reduced safety standards, I won't fly them again.

I'd rather fly freight than passengers, because boxes don't bitch. Passengers do.

Muggles, I am glad you have had such great experiences with SAA. I found all aspects of their service to be very poor.

As for what jetdrve said, "I'm riding either an American or European carrier down to Africa, the next time I go. Because of SAA's reduced safety standards, I won't fly them again". Could not agree more.

Thanks for the heads up, seems to fit the profile of SAA.

Please read my thread:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8121043/m/740106809

The worst travel nightmare of my life on SAA. Have flown this airline for years and it has steadily gone downhill. Customer service is at an all-time low. On this trip alone had, cancelled flight [told it was a failed weather radar system -- which they did not have ability to repair on site], next flight delayed -- missed international connection [reservation computer malfunction -- had to manually re-enter 100% of boarding passenger info], lost luggage (Weapons Case -- never recovered during the 12-day hunt), customer service personnel actually laughing in my face at my situation/misfortune, and drunk SAA associates in Johannesburg [could actually smell booze on breath]. It was so bad, that literally, if it were in a movie folks would say, "that could never really happen."

Another interesting note was that SAA claimed to have no automated system for tracking luggage inbound from the US. Throughout my orderal they kept claiming that it was still in Dulles, while all the while it had arrived on a later flight and was locked up in Firearms Registration at JNB. The RSA Police said that if SAA had notified them to be on the lookout for the case, this would have never happened.

Also, when I had to overnight in Jo'burg (something I hadn't planned on), I ran into an Engineer who used to work for SAA. He said that most of the best and brightest had left the company in recent years for better employment (he avoids flying the airline whenever possible -- also expressed concerns over safetly/maintenance [too many unqualified personnel on staff]). Also, ran into other SAA customers (South Africans) who claimed that SAA within the past few years has been setting new records for lost luggage.

Glad that this hasn't happened to some folks here. With all of the "system failures," and warning from actual former SAA Engineer, I'll think twice about flying SAA again.

However, I was a bit surprised by some of the posts here. The idea that because it didn't happen to me, it doesn't actually happen is just plain folly. This would be akin to somebody saying that Cape Buffalo aren't dangerous because they went on a Buff hunt and didn't get charged.

BEE again rears its ugly and dangerous head.