I have a really nice right hand Mauser stock pattern that I would like to have duplicated in left hand. Mirror image duplicating can be done with a duplicator set up for that purpose. Does anybody know someone who has one?

I wish I did

I think it more practical to have a RH pattern modified to fit your LH action. I may have one, let me `check

Easier to glue on and bonds up a new cheek piece on your pattern.

I agree with dpcd on gluing on the left side a slightly larger cheek piece and finish by hand to match the cheek pad to fit the person. My small duplicator design allows for adjustments. I think the stockmaker could use a machine that can be stored in less than 4 sq ft of floor space.

There is no possible way to Mirror Image an orange into an apple with a manual machine. You can only copy the pattern, what ever that may be.

quote:

There is no possible way to Mirror Image an orange into an apple with a manual machine

This is a link to the now discontinued Northstar Duplicator. http://www.terrco.com/woodcarv...20OWNER%20MANUAL.pdf Starting page 7.

As woodhunter stated they made at least two 3 spindle machines. One option did have the option to cut the x axis mirrored. The manual above shows the set up. My QUICK reading of the manual leave me to believe you would have to level the top then the bottom and cut the sides Basically pilot and cutter parallel to the pattern.

I've always found that I get my best copy cutting with the bit as close to 90deg to the pattern as possible.

I knew that I had seen it somewhere! I have a Northstar. I may have to see if conversion is easy.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

There is no possible way to Mirror Image an orange into an apple with a manual machine

This is a link to the now discontinued Northstar Duplicator. http://www.terrco.com/woodcarv...20OWNER%20MANUAL.pdf Starting page 7.

As woodhunter stated they made at least two 3 spindle machines. One option did have the option to cut the x axis mirrored. The manual above shows the set up. My QUICK reading of the manual leave me to believe you would have to level the top then the bottom and cut the sides Basically pilot and cutter parallel to the pattern.

I've always found that I get my best copy cutting with the bit as close to 90deg to the pattern as possible.

The properly tooled North Star master Carver is capable of producing accurate LH stocks from a RH pattern.

I deleted my previous posts to this thread as I was concerned that controversy would appear.

But, a little info:

To change the third position from a RH to LH: Pull the front blue cover, change out the worm gear on the shaft, replace the cover, remove the tie bar between the center and third carving arms, then connect the reversing cams between the center arm and the right arm.

Mine will do it. (That is not a LH stock in the third position, the patterns are just in the duplicator for illustrative purposes.)



Reversing cams below.



The operation with a LH stock is identical to carving a RH stock: Carve, rotate, repeat.

I will take a few photos and post later.

Looks like you have the market cornered then.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Looks like you have the market cornered then.

Yea maybe for my personal guns. I am too old and cranky to do work for others. Besides I am not licensed to do work for others.

I should set the thing up for LH and make a LH pattern just for fun.

Wenig has Claude Gatewood's NorthStar that has a reversible position. And there is a shop listed on the Gorby Walnut site that has three NorthStars, maybe one is reversible.

Gearing below.

This is the 90 degree worm and worm gear for the center position. All three worms are on a common shaft, so when the hand crank is turned, all three rotate the same amount.



Below is the worm and worm gear for the far right position. To reverse the roatation, remove the worm gear, loosen the setscrews for the double worm and slide the double worm over, centering it below the spur center shaft for the stock blank. Then install another worm gear with teeth cut in a different direction.



This is the other worm gear.

Take a close look. There are both left hand and right hand cutters in the storage block. Mainly for use when carving two blanks at the same time. Right hand cutter in one position, left hand cutter in the other position. The motors are reversible to match the cutter. Why this? To balance the torque when carving two blanks.



Tracers to match each cutter profile. Some are oversize, so the stock carved will be larger in all dimensions than the pattern. I cut 1/8" oversize first, then hang the stock for a couple of weeks to stabilize, then cut 1/16" oversize, stabilize for a week, then do the final carving.

It is nice to learn something new, isn't it? Also I've learned that if there is a strong enough desire, someone will work to fill that need. It is apparent that someone has already met that need!

On the "level":

The Teflon tracers do not marr the pattern.

Roughing out a stock below, 1/8" oversize.

May be I have the wrong glass on ??? pout wood hunter in your 1st pic down, which is a bit fuzzy, I SEE a right hand pattern on the left side of the machine and 2 stoxks being cur that have right hand cheek pieces just like the pattern

Where is the mirror image LEFT HAND STOCK made from right hand pattern ??????

quote:

Mine will do it. (That is not a LH stock in the third position, the patterns are just in the duplicator for illustrative purposes.)

He simply doesn't have a picture of the mirror option working.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
May be I have the wrong glass on ??? pout wood hunter in your 1st pic down, which is a bit fuzzy, I SEE a right hand pattern on the left side of the machine and 2 stoxks being cur that have right hand cheek pieces just like the pattern

Where is the mirror image LEFT HAND STOCK made from right hand pattern ??????

Read the post again. I explained the right hand stock in the third position, only for illustrative purposes to show the machine has the capacity to hold a pattern and two blanks. The stocks are not being cut, call them photographic props.

That photo is about 10 years old, I do not have any photos of a LH stock in the machine. This will change as I am planning on carving a LH pattern for a M70. Note the stocks in the machine are pattern stocks made from hard maple, they are not inletted.

Everyone keep in mind that I am not soliciting stock work. I do no work for others, as I am 70 years old and barely have enough time keeping up with my personal projects.

Woodhunter, Ok let me approach my question this way. Vol717 has a right handed barreled action sunk into a custom stock that is stocked for a right handed shooter it has a right hand cheek piece, even has some cast off.

He however has grown up shooting a right handed bolt gun off his left shoulder. Not to uncommon, I've made stocks in this very same manner. What he wants is a mirror image stock machined from his right handed stock that will now leave the machine with the exact same check piece as the original but now on the left side of his new stock complete with any Cast ON that was incorporated into the original right handed stock as cast off.

In short, you're going to use his original RH stock as the pattern and without removing either original stock or the blank being cut from your machine it's going to morph into a left hand stock ?

As I read that you are asking for a mirror of the outside and not on the inside. While I have never used that step up I would wonder if you could step up and mirror the outside then convert the machine back to inlet.

Darcy, are you trying to pull your foot out of your mouth by feigning that you didn’t understand the question? When I called you I made it perfectly clear that I am looking for a true mirror image copy of the right hand stock. I never said anything here or on the phone about shooting a right handed gun left handed. I import and sell, and occasionally keep left hand Zastava Mausers that are true mirror images of the right hand Large Ring M98 actions. I have a right hand custom stock pattern that I would like to get reverse copied to fit the Zastava left hand actions.

Vol717

When you called me this morning you did not make yourself at all clear. Your primary question to me was, is it possible to make a "mirror image" left handed stock out of a right handed stock by just "adjusting the duplicator". I asked if mirror imagining was to include reversing cheek piece as well for the left handed shooter and you said "yes". Your questions this morning revolved around the exterior only, nothing at all about either a right or left hand action. Just the exterior !

I replied no. Could you Laser scan a right hand stock make what reverse CAD corrections that were required and then run it, Perhaps its been with much success by many large companies, think Beretta. But not with a standard 3, 4 or 5 axis duplicator

I've accustom to the taste of my feet, so it doesn't bother me a bit

Ok since we rearrange changed the chess board a bit lets try this move. We now have established have a left handed Zastava barreled action and you want to inlet a blank using a right handed stock for the pattern. We're going inlett the piece of french for the left hand barreled action So far, so good, I get it.

How will WE, you and I Vol then account for the reversed left hand bolt stop and shelf it sits on and reversed ejection port? Leave extra wood ? fine I'm with you go for it

An "exact mirror copy" ?????????

Careful now, don't cut the blue wire

A mirror image North Star machine was used at Fajen. It carved true mirror image stocks using a right hand pattern. Yes, it was done in the past. Wenig's bought the machine at auction in '98. I do not know if they still have it.

quote:

Besides I am not licensed to do work for others.

I fully understand you not wanting to do work for others.

But if you are in the states what license is needed to do wood work for others.

I believe that it has been thoroughly established that a fully functional left hand stock can be made from a right hand pattern. Now I just need to find someone to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Vol717:
I believe that it has been thoroughly established that a fully functional left hand stock can be made from a right hand pattern. Now I just need to find someone to do it.

http://www.sonorangunstocks.co...tockDuplicating.html

A quick google search yields the above for me...I have no experience of them but might be worth investigating. Surely there are others?

I'd bet there are more than a few of those machines with the LH:RH cams etc that folk have not used or figured out.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
Woodhunter, Ok let me approach my question this way. Vol717 has a right handed barreled action sunk into a custom stock that is stocked for a right handed shooter it has a right hand cheek piece, even has some cast off.

He however has grown up shooting a right handed bolt gun off his left shoulder. Not to uncommon, I've made stocks in this very same manner. What he wants is a mirror image stock machined from his right handed stock that will now leave the machine with the exact same check piece as the original but now on the left side of his new stock complete with any Cast ON that was incorporated into the original right handed stock as cast off.

In short, you're going to use his original RH stock as the pattern and without removing either original stock or the blank being cut from your machine it's going to morph into a left hand stock ?

Yep, just like magic.

I need to take a video. When setup for reverse, the far right hand cutting arm swings in the opposite direction of the pattern tracing arm. Combined with the stock blank rotating in the opposite direction of the pattern, a left hand stock is carved: Bolt notch on the left side, cheek piece on the right side.

Thinking about this, when I make the M70 LH pattern I will set the video camera above the duplicator and show what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Juglansregia:

quote:

Originally posted by Vol717:
I believe that it has been thoroughly established that a fully functional left hand stock can be made from a right hand pattern. Now I just need to find someone to do it.

http://www.sonorangunstocks.co...tockDuplicating.html

A quick google search yields the above for me...I have no experience of them but might be worth investigating. Surely there are others?

I'd bet there are more than a few of those machines with the LH:RH cams etc that folk have not used or figured out.

Yep, the machine at Sonoran Gunstocks is a NorthStar Master Carver like mine but with more spindles. I have communicated with George, back when he bought the machine, and gave him some tips on setting up the machine. It has the reverse mechanism like mine.

George is actively in the stock making business, he posts on the RimfireCentral site.

One of his posts in the link below, showing his duplicator, take a look.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/...wthread.php?t=988273

quote:

Originally posted by Juglansregia:

quote:

Originally posted by Vol717:
I believe that it has been thoroughly established that a fully functional left hand stock can be made from a right hand pattern. Now I just need to find someone to do it.

http://www.sonorangunstocks.co...tockDuplicating.html

A quick google search yields the above for me...I have no experience of them but might be worth investigating. Surely there are others?

I'd bet there are more than a few of those machines with the LH:RH cams etc that folk have not used or figured out.

I have used several types of duplicators. I never really thought about buying one as I am not in the gunstock business, but it sure would be nice to have access to one for my stock work.

Then I got a call from a friend and he said: "You are not going to believe this, but I saw a big duplicator under a blue tarp beside a barn yesterday".

The machine was about 8 hours drive from me and I spent a week finding out who owned it and how to buy it. Finally closed the deal and was off on a 24 hour round trip to pick it up. Had to completely disassemble it to move it, my pickup was stuffed. After 2 months of sand blasting, painting, replacing all the bearings, a complete re wire, I had it up and running.

I really like the machine, it is very sturdy and accurate and easy to use. Plus versatile: I can carve long muzzle loader stocks, it will take up to a 6 foot length. Not to mention the mirror imaging capability.

So yea, I betcha there a few out there that the owners have no clue of how to fully use the potential of the machine.

quote:

Combined with the stock blank rotating in the opposite direction of the pattern, a left hand stock is carved: Bolt notch on the left side, cheek piece on the right side.

Thanks, I had missed the reverse rotation. Now my old tired brain can following it all.

I am wrong, simple as that

I called Wenig today, and was put in touch with Jimmy, Jimmy is one of the guys that runs their pantographs. He did in fact confirm as had Wood hunter that they did have the tooling to do a mirror image, Wood-hunter no doubt does have the ability to convert to run a left handed stock from a right hand pattern. So I stand corrected.

I asked Jimmy if this service was still available? His reply was "No I'm not even sure where that old equipment is, that stuff was history quite some time ago" " today if someone wants a left handed stock we use a left handed pattern". So that's straight forward enough. Now all you have to do Vol717 is find some one that still has such a machine in good working condition and ship them your stock.

But my original answer to your question at that time was " No, my machine is not capable, nor do I know of anyone else that can do this"

Now I know Wood-Hunter can, Wenig could and Sonora ? can as well.

Good luck !!!!!!!!!

In addition to being a heck of a nice guy, and one of the best shooters to ever walk the earth, Carl Bernoski makes stocks and has a Northstar duplicator. I do not know if he has the mirror image option, but it might be worth asking.

You can reach him through his web site here.

John

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I am wrong, simple as that

I called Wenig today, and was put in touch with Jimmy, Jimmy is one of the guys that runs their pantographs. He did in fact confirm as had Wood hunter that they did have the tooling to do a mirror image, Wood-hunter no doubt does have the ability to convert to run a left handed stock from a right hand pattern. So I stand corrected.

I asked Jimmy if this service was still available? His reply was "No I'm not even sure where that old equipment is, that stuff was history quite some time ago" " today if someone wants a left handed stock we use a left handed pattern". So that's straight forward enough. Now all you have to do Vol717 is find some one that still has such a machine in good working condition and ship them your stock.

But my original answer to your question at that time was " No, my machine is not capable, nor do I know of anyone else that can do this"

Now I know Wood-Hunter can, Wenig could and Sonora ? can as well.

Good luck !!!!!!!!!

Hey I have made worse mistakes!!

The NorthStar is an interesting machine for those that have not seen it in action. When I purchased the machine in "Basket Case Condition" I had no idea that it was capable of a mirrored stock. The old gent that had it whispered to me when I had the duplicator in the truck and was ready to head for home: "This thing will do both left hand and right hand carvings from the same pattern."



"I asked Jimmy if this service was still available? His reply was "No I'm not even sure where that old equipment is, that stuff was history quite some time ago" " today if someone wants a left handed stock we use a left handed pattern". So that's straight forward enough."

My thought is when the machine was first obtained LH patterns were made.

On Sonora Gunstocks website it indicates the following: ..... The Northstar also gives us the capability of taking a right hand stock and making a left hand duplicate. So now you can shoulder your firearm YOUR way! "

I think maybe that I am in luck! I would not have been able to find them without you guys! Thanks. I'll report back when I know more.

Please keep us posted.

I do have a pattern for a left hand MRC stock which can be modified.

I talked to George today. After the new year I’ll send the pattern stock to him for reverse copying.

Vol
Please do us all a favor. Take a few pics of the stock that you have now that you want "mirrored"and that will be used as the pattern. A broadside pic of each side of the stock as well as the top side showing the inletting would be great

Then some identical pics of the "mirrored" blank after the procedure. Maybe this will better explain this operation