OK, last time I open this thread. Let me just put it this way:

I am not admitting to have done anything or know of anything anyone else has ever done relating to removing maker's names and serial numbers . Oh, for the aciton used in this build, the serial number will have to come off of the front ring to make room for the new engraving. Maybe this one does not have the serial number on the front ring, but it would put it in the minority of actions out there.

Yes, this is also what happens when you surface grind an action. Again, I am not saying I have ever done this or have ever known anyone who surface ground and action, thereby removing the serial number. My advice to everyone is to not admit to knowing anything about surface gringing serial numbers off, doubly especially so in public forums.

i also am well aware of who made actions, who built rifles on the actions, and who retailed the completed rifles. i am also well aware of how all of this is interpreted and handled by the ATF. That is all that matters. What obscure facts of history are known by gun enthusiasts is menaingless when it comes to how the ATF interprets things. They are the ones who can send you to prison or cause you to lose your house to pay your legal fees. History books do not have equal weight to ATF regulations in the eyes of the law. That is all I have been trying to say.

How many times have you driven by a cop when you were going over the speed limit? And how many times have you been written a ticket for speeding? I am guiessing you got away with it a lot more often than you got nailed with a speeding fine.

Similarly, yes, the majority of times Customs officials have never looked at the manufacturer of my rifle. BUT I have had it checked both abroad and upon return. I have had foriegn Customs officials cut upon the tape on my ammo boxes the count each round and look at the headstamp to see if the caliber matched my rifle barrel engraving and the caliber on the import paperwork I had to get months before entering their country. And that guy even pulled the bullets to look at the projectiles to be sure they were soft points (expanding). Never had a US Cutoms official check anything with my ammo. But they defintitely have it within their power, and actually it is their responsibility, to check the manufacturer.

Again, i am most definitely NOT saying I have any direct or indirect knowledge of maker's anmes and serial numbers being filed or ground off int he process of surface grinding or filing up an action for a custom build.

All I have tried to say is make yourself aware of the laws. As i said in a recent thread in gunsmithing about surface grinding off a serial number and then re-engraving the exact same serial number on the filed up action before or afetr bluing, make yourself aware of the laws. My advice is that when you get conflicting legal opinions from the ATF (and it happens A LOT, as i mentioend in that post) stick with the most conservative interpretation. And by conservative, I mean lost likely to keep your ass out of jail. The more "grey" soemthing is, the more likely you are to get nailed.

It is just like driving by a cop. If you are already late or particularly broke that month, it seems that is the time when a cop gives you a speeding ticket. It does nto matter how fast your friend drove that mroning, how fast you you drove on that exact road the day before, how badly your grandmother needed to get to church right then. All that matters is the cop has you on radar going over the speed limit. He could be just having a bad day himself and wnat to take it out on soemone. he could be acting on orders from the political leaders way wbove his pay grade to crack down and actually enforce the existing laws on that stretch of road.

Customs offciials are no different. most will let you get away with stuff and not strictly enforce the letter of the law, especially if they do not feel like doing a lot of paperwork that day. But if they are having a bad day, you have a bad attiutude after travelling non-stop for over 36 hours and you just want to go home, or maybe political leaders say "you will actually start checking what you are supposed to be checking each and every time." Then it iwll not matter how many times you breezed through Customs before, how many times your buddy breezed through Customs, or anything. All that matters is will that Customs officer check what he is supposed to check and actually enforce the laws as they are written.

For soem reason, on internet gun boards folks start talking about how they think gun laws should be written as opposed to what they actually are. It takes soem effort to learn the law, but zero effort to spout off opinions or limited experiencecs.

When i hear these small case histories I am always reminded of the saying, "All bears walk single file through the woods. At least the one I saw did." Yeah, and you can drive out to HWY 210 (closest blacktop to me) and drive 70mph down it. The speed limit is 55, but you can pass a cop at 70 and if he is fixing to go off shift, you can probably get away with it. Or you can drive 60mph and get away with it almosy 100% of the time. BUTY-the cops can and do ocassionallyt write tickets for driving 60mph on HWY 210. All they are doing is enforcing the laws as they are written. They are 100% in the right and the speeder is 100% in the wrong. Even if they do not know the speed limit, ignorence of the law is no excuse.

My standard advice to people is to not drive faster than they are willing to pay a fine for. I likewise advise to make yourself knowledgable about the gun laws and then you decide how much you are willing to risk. Everyone has their own risk tolerence. I will never say what i am willing to risk on a public forum. But i do know the laws and what can and does happen. What i think the laws should be carries just as much wieght as what i think the speed limit on HWY210 should be. My opion on it is completely meaningless, as are the feelings of everyone I know. The number on the sign is all that matters in the end.

Can speeding tickets be fought and won? Soemtimes they can. most often not, but it happens. It carries a cost to beat a ticket. Time, money, aggrevation, etc. Go up against the feds and the costs go up by many orders of magnitude.

So I am advising to make yourslef aware of the laws, think about your options, and decide what risks you are able to live with. The more risk averse you are, the more conservative I advise you to be when deciding what to do.

As for me? ASgain, no way in hell i am going to say anything about serial numbers or manufacturers on an internet forum! I will tell you this-when i was younger I swam with sharks, rode bulls, raced cars, caught a bobcat with my bare hands, dated A LOT of red headed women, and did busienss with the Russian Mafia, among many other things I will NEVER admit to on an internet forum. Today i am older and have been phsyically disabled for severla years. About the only fun thing i do now is regulary jump oiut of airplanes. It is physically a lot easier on my body, but i can still get an adrenaline rush by hanging onto the outside of an airplane going 85 knots at 15,500'. Riding on the outside of a plane is so much more fun than riding on the inside of the plane!

I know what the gun laws actually are and make my decisions on how to do things. You should do the same. Listening to anonamous strangers from who knows where will not help you if the ATF or Customs departments ever decide to come after you or make an example out of you.I list my real name and where I really live, but you don't know me and can't be sure I am who i say I am and live where I say I live (trust me, if you knew me and knew where I lived, you would know that I decided to start lying for some reason, i would come up with a better person and place to pretend to be!!!) Likely to happen? Most of the time you can get away with it. Would they be within their legal powers to nail your ass to the wall if they felt like it? Start talking to the ATF and make the decisions that you can live with. Only YOU can decide how big of a speedeing fien you are willing to pay

BTW-please forgive typos. I have limited use of my hands and do the best I can with 2 fingers. if gets worse this time of year when it gets colder

This should be required reading! Call it "Common sense 101"

Marc,
Why do you insist that the serial number will be removed?
My Rigby still has the original Mauser number, as does my Westley and my Evans and all of the original 275, 350 and 416 Rigbys I have seen in hand or photos. All on the SIDE of the front ring. There is no reason at all that a Mauser serial number in the standard location would have to be altered in any way.

As an aside:
Just wondering if the CalRigbys have the Merkel serial number removed? Wouldn't the actions need a serial number in order to be imported into the US?

For everones information: The serial number is on the side of the action, not the top. The script size being used on this rifle is a little smaller than on the examples shown in the thread. There is plenty of room on top without having to move the serial number. The action is a DWM, and "DEUTSCHE WAFFEN-UND MUNITIONSFABRICAN BERLIN"" has not been removed from the left wall of the receiver. The original selby rifles action apears to have been scrubed (except for the serial number). I have seen a few H&H rifles with DWM marked actions, but I have not seen a true Rigby so marked. That doesn't mean that they don't exist, of course.

Can't go wrong with the original wording - it's classic.

Sharktown

Matt,
i gather your Selby .416 repro will not have a cheeckpiece?

No cheekpiece, like the original. This is good, because it saves me a little dough.

Matt,
I really like the plain no fuss lines without cheeckpiece. Several of the British rifle makers did without one on their bolt & double rifles.
To really relive the legend of Harry,
you should be a lefty shooting a RH bolt rifle,
dont forget to include the wide trigger shoe,
and in time, you need to evolve to a RH pushfeed M70 458win,..
Selby changed from one BG rifle to another more so through need than desire, .470 got run over,with no other bigbore double readily available to finish the season with, a RH .416 bolt rifle was purchased quick smart. He grew so fond of it, that replacing it with another double was not considered.
Its eventual rebarrel took so long he again found himself needing a rifle for the season,thus asking a US client to get a PF M70.458win to him as soon as possible.He grew fond of that rifle also,never going back to the Rigby,and eventually selling it.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
He grew fond of that rifle also,never going back to the Rigby,and eventually selling it.

The gunwrighters were misinformed as to Selby's preference for for the 458win model 70 over the 416. Here is the real scoop from the man himself:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...571061931#6571061931