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| One of Us |
Hello Guys I have just secured a bolt for a Mauser Kurz rifle that I acquired some time ago (sans bolt obviously). The rifle is a very plain round receiver Model B from 1923, it has a 250 Savage barrel that is pretty poor shape. I have shot it a bit with the open sights (and a spare bolt from another rifle that head-spaced up) and accuracy was poor. I have another “good” Kurz in 250 Savage. So I am considering an all out rebuild for this rifle. Given that it has a replacement bolt, I don’t really think that I have to give too much consideration to “collector value”, however these are pretty rare actions so I do want to do it justice. I’m thinking a blued steel and walnut lightweight sporter for mountain game (Tahr, Chamois, and Deer). Currently I’m pondering what to chamber it in so I can keep an eye out for a suitable barrel blank (getting some of the more sought after maker’s blanks in the right configuration can take years down here in NZ). The magazine box length is 2.71 (69 mm). It is a small ring action. Ideally I’d like something that can launch high BC projectiles (say .55 or better) of at least 130 grains at around 2900 fps as a minimum. So – what cartridges can you guys suggest that meet the performance criteria within the practical limitations of this action ?? | ||
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For a BC >.55 6.5mm > 140gr 7mm > 168gr 308 > 175gr 338 > 250gr There were no .25 cal | |||
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| One of Us |
6.5 Lapua is too long 6.5 creedmor is too long. 6.5 grendel won't come near 2900fps. how about .45 bc and 2600fps and 120gr. http://www.frfrogspad.com/bcdata.htm | |||
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I think the 6.5 Grendel is about right and as 2900fps is not essential for good hunting results it is right in the just right box. A 123gn bullet with exceptional qualities at 2700 will get the job done as even a quick look over on the Grendel forum will show. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/ | |||
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I believe the .260 Rem meets your demand. | |||
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I think the magazine is too short for a .260Rem | |||
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Depends on the bullets you like to use. | |||
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Hmmm - sure doesn't look like anything that will go under that col will give anything like 2900 with a 130 gn at any sort of normal pressures but I want to ensure I don't miss any possible ideas- and my 250 is already doing a 117 gn at over 2700, so unless I can better that there's no point in another build | |||
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You could get a little more with what you got by going to a 250-3000 Ackley Improved. All you would need is the chamber reamer and it will give just a little more velocity then the standard 250-3000. | |||
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There is the 6.5x47 Lapua that is in the 130 @ 2900fps teritory. | |||
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I have reservations about putting a 6.5x47 in a small ring action due to pressure. To prove myself wrong I have an intermediate Oberndorf that will be getting barreled in 6.5x47. A few different tests will take place to see how the action (of course one is obviously not conclusive) holds up to the pressure. Just... something you may want to consider. Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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| one of us |
Then 130 grains is overkill for those species. What ranges are you talking about? The 250 Savage is effective out to 400 meters on that lineup. | |||
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One of Us |
Your performance criteria are inconsistent with your action. You have a small ring action with a short mag box but you are asking for high BC projectile which in general means somewhat heavy for caliber projectile which also in general means a longer bullet with velocities in the 2900 fps. The preceding is inconsistent with the action you have. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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That 6.5x47 Lapua may be too hot. It operated in the 60K's region. I'd say stick with the 250-300 or the 250-3000 Ackley Improved. | |||
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Yes - it does look like I was way too optimistic with my expectations of 130 gn projectiles at 2900 fps from that action/mag box combination. My kurz is a "modern" full 98 featured commercial version of a small ring, with a small barrel shank. Modern being a bit relative as applied to any mauser really, my action is from 1923. Other standard lenght small ring actions of the same era seem to get chambered in some pretty hot numbers (some with the double whammy of high pressure and large base diameter, which as I understand means a lot of bolt thrust) In the 250 Savage I'm currently hunting with I'm using 117 gn projectiles at 2720 fps. Thats OK for most NZ game but it would be nice to have a rifle optimised for lighter game such as Fallow and Whitetail using 90/100 gn projectiles, and one for heavier and tougher species like Tahr and Wapiti. I do want to rebuild this rifle as its not usable in its current state. It would seem logical to pick a 6.5 chamber to take advantage of the wonderful range of 6.5 projectiles. If I chambered in 6.5x47 with its factory specs of 60,000 plus psi, I would reloaded to a slighly more modest level - the question is how much of a potential hazard am I creating for an unwary future owner who unwittingly shoots a lot of factory ammo ?? | |||
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To my knowledge there is no factory 6.5x47, but I could be totally wrong on that account. If I remember correctly 6.5x47 is roughly 67k PSI. If I were building it I would mark the bottom of the barrel with the caliber and load, similar to the british proofs of old. Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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You may have already considered this but... You seem to have the light rifle covered already. Would not a medium caliber be more useful for animals the size of elk (wapiti)? with some powders you can get 2600fps out of a 165gr bullet in the 300 savage. It would fit your action and the pressures are well with in reason.Just a thought. | |||
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Kaboom - that's the sort of idea I was looking for, I'll check it out, the kurz was originally offered in a cartridge called 8x51, long obsolete but not unlike a 300 Savage (and the 300 has the advantage of a great selection of projectiles). Thanks | |||
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Thinking off the top of my head here, but how about a wildcat 6.5 based on the .250-3000 case? Since you'll be doing a lot of metal work anyway, what's a few bucks more to go the wildcat route? | |||
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Yep - been looking at a few wildcats, the 7mm IHMSA is a possiblitiy I think, and the 6.5/250 isn't that unusual either. | |||
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7mmbr. on a mini mauser Zatsava.  | |||
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Here in the U.S. some of the highpower shooters were using a cartridge called the 6X which is a 243 shortened .130" and using 22-250 brass. They also had the 6.5X which is the 260 shortened .130" Just have to shortened the dies also. might work in your action. | |||
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Jon - Down here in NZ where everything is expensive your idea of being able to just shorten up dies is an attractive one. I'm assuming that a special reamer would be required ?? (but since I will almost certainly have to get a reamer made anyway thats not really an issue) I'm leanning towards 7mm (so could in the shortning scerario use 7mm08) as this also gives me tho option to have my current barrel rebored | |||
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