I really did not know what forum to pose my question on...so moderators, please feel free to move.

Is there any reliable, current information out there about the well-documented problems at George Sandmann's Empire Rifles? Rumor and innuendo are easy to find, but actual info not so much.

To an outsider, looks like Mr. Sandmann was/is woefully undercapitalized. The few that I have seen are superb.

Thanks for any replies. Good hunting.

See this thread

George

Looks as if Empire Rifles web site is gone...

The latest edition of SCI's newspaper in an artticle by Terry Wieland, says Empire is out of business.

There is nothing to question. He has been out of business and in a state of effective banruptcy for many months.

JC

Sad,

It floors me how many "gun" business end up this way.

He had a good product! Dont understand!

Ed

A great product does not necessairly sell, it takes capital, marketing and perseverance. It is sad, but it is a reality.

quote:

Originally posted by Dall85:
A great product does not necessairly sell, it takes capital, marketing and perseverance. It is sad, but it is a reality.

The way I understand it, Empire sold a pile of rifles, they just never built and delivered them, and I'm $8500 lighter for it.

The New Hampshire Attorney General's Office has an active criminal investigation in progress. All victims have been asked to complete the forms here:

http://doj.nh.gov/consumer/complaints/index.htm

Apparently, a George Frederick Sandmann filed bankruptcy on Dec. 16, 2011, in District Court, New Hampshire, cause no. 11-14565-JMB.
First meetings of creditors scheduled for January 20, 2012, and all objections to discharge to the bankruptcy are due by March 20, 2012.

quote:

The way I understand it, Empire sold a pile of rifles, they just never built and delivered them, and I'm $8500 lighter for it

That, simply put, is fraud! Unforgiveable!!! Many find they have a great design and product, but do not consider the capital to produce the product, even with the significant deposits. If fraud has been committed may he have an oversexed cell mate!

Makes one really appreciate the major English gunmakers whose businesses carried on for several decades through thick and thin! Albeit many of them under new ownership.

As the owner of an Empire rifle (bought in 2005 and delivered in 2005) I was sorry to watch the death spiral of Empire Rifles. I still talk to George on occasion and wish him well. My rifle is everything he promised. It's my belief that a bad divorce and crashing economy coupled with the fact that he was undercapitalized signed Empire's death warrant. I will be interested in watching how the market place treats these rifles as they come onto the used market. In the weird s**t category I also bought (2000) a Paso Rigby 416. I can pickem can't I. But I have no regrets....both are excellent examples of hunting rifles with all the attributes one would expect of high end custom hardware.

To Bad Empire is gone
They made a very good rifle and they looked great.
Larry

quote:

Originally posted by elk88101:
To Bad Empire is gone
They made a very good rifle and they looked great.
Larry

A fine sentiment except for the fact that Empire Rifles and its owner defrauded customers by accepting money and not delivering rifles.

George

George

SAD but TRUE
Larry