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I recently picked up two 1909 Argentine barreled actions. One is already well on its way to becoming a slicked-up .338 WM. The second, as it sits now, is currently set-up as a .264 Win. That particular cartridge doesn't interest me much, so I'm exploring other magnum cartridge options (since the bolt face is already opened up for magnums). Can the 1909's be converted (safely) to either a .375 H&H or .404 Jeffery? Some sources make it sound as if this is OK, others not so much... Pro's/con's much appreciated. Thanks! | ||
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While a 98 based action CAN be opened to hold a 375 and 404. The 1909 would not be my choice. Matter of fact I wouldn't use it for full loaded 338 or 264 unless it was reheat treated. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I have a 404 Jeffery built on a 1909 Argentine action. It's been to Africa more than once, hasn't blown up yet.  _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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416 Taylor would be a good choice (if you are wanting more than the 338 WM ). | |||
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Huge difference between blowing up and having setback issues. Also I have found a difference between 1909 actions. Keep pressure lower you should have no problem with them. Just not my first choice. Yep a 416 Taylor is a good choice. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I've had two customs made on 09 Argentine actions the past few years. One, completed about three or four years ago, is a .416 Ruger. I had it reheat treated. It's working just fine. My newest custom was metalsmithed by Reto Buehler and is chambered for the 9.3x64 Brenneke. It was on the soft side so I had Reto send it out to be reheat treated. It's working just fine also although I've only put about forty rounds through it so far. Having the action heat treated adds about a hundred bucks or so to the cost, but is a no brainer in my opinion. TT | |||
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TT Who metalsmithed the .416 Ruger for you? Were both of those rifles stocked by Mr. Goudy? | |||
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The .416 Ruger had a number of metalsmiths work on it. It started as an amateur project of a dear friend of mine. He had considerable help from Jules LaBantchni. My pal passed away before he finished it and I inherited it. It was, at the time, barreled and chambered for the .338 Win cartridge. I gave the rifle to Danny Pedersen with a request that he re-bore it to the .416 Ruger. Once that was done, I sent the barreled action to Gary Goudy, along with a nice blank of English walnut. Gary detected a couple things that needed correcting and gave the rifle to a really fine metalsmith to correct. I've unfortunately forgotten the fellow's name and he passed away from cancer shortly after finishing my work. Gary then stocked it for me. Gary also stocked the 9.3x64 Brenneke for me. | |||
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Just remembered the metalsmith's name, it was Herman Waldron. Sorry for my faulty memory. TT | |||
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There is a good photo of Herman standing between Joe Balickie and Robert Swartley on page 42 of The Gun Digest Review of Custom Guns edited by Ken Warner. | |||
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Yep, He was a little guy but with a ton of talent. I have posted photos of the two rides before, but for those that might have missed them, I'll post a couple again. TT   | |||
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Should have mentioned that the top rifle in the photos is the .416 Ruger, and the bottom the 9.3x64 Brenneke. I might add that I have another custom rifle built on the 09 action as well as a barreled action on an 09. The completed rifle is a .30-06 and the barreled action, a .25-06. I had both of those actions tested and they were deemed suitable for standard cartridges without heat treating. Below is the .30-06 TT  | |||
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Beautiful rifles. How did you find out that heat treating was necessary? | |||
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By measuring the relative hardness of the steel using a Rockwell tester. I am told by those whose opinions I trust that the 09 Argentine action has a reputation of varying considerably in hardness. I have followed the philosophy of when in doubt, give it a new heat treat. TT | |||
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Very nice rifles TT!!! On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Isn't that a huge difference between a custom made in Europe and the states? As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Tsquare, beautiful rifles! Thanks for the input guys. So to be on the safe side, it sounds like I should get these actions heat treated. Any recommendations for people (or companies) that can perform that service? | |||
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I bought a G33-40 action from a friend who bought it about 35 years ago from Brownells. They must have checked the hardness for it's marked 25C on the bottom with a electric pen. I have made a couple of actions thru the years & heat treated them to 40 on the C scale. I've checked both Remington & Winchester. They run around 40 Rockwell C. Do you guys think I should have the G33-40 heat treated? If I do what do I tell the heat treat outfit what the steel is? Thanks for any information you can give me. | |||
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I've had mine done by Pacific Metallurgical (PacMet) in Kent WA. | |||
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http://forums.accuratereloadin...=287103131#287103131 | |||
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"Thanks for the input guys. So to be on the safe side, it sounds like I should get these actions heat treated. Any recommendations for people (or companies) that can perform that service?" Blanchard's in Salt Lake, I had two 1909's done there fairly recently; passing on knowledge given to me, you should request your receiver/bolt be processed in an inert atmosphere to prevent scaling, the receiver re-case hardened between 36-40"C" and bolt body between 42-46"C", and request approx. .015 to .020 penetration. Once you get receiver/bolt back from whomever you choose to do the work, clean up all the metal immediately and thoroughly oil all surfaces inside and out, don't let the receiver sit around untreated, rust can quickly set in. | |||
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Just for grins for those of you that have a copy of Bill Hambly-Clark's book Centerfire Rifle Accuracy. Turn to page 42 and read his comments in the second paragraph. Just more food for thought. I just received 4 Brno Dovetailed Model 21 actions and bolts back from Blanchard. . Excellent work with minimal distortion and very rapid turn around. I also included a dead soft new FZH Left hand bolt for the same process with this batch. Great company to work with and they have an FFL so your ass isn't hanging in the wind. What a novel concept. | |||
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DArcy, I love Bill's book! | |||
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I prefer a magnum actioned Mauser for the 404..mostly from a feeding and reloading standpoint, but that's expensive..Have owned a number of both and the larger action fit better, the 1909 and other standard 98s are a blivit, that's 10 lbs. of s---t in a 5 lb. bag...crowded. The bolt face on YOUR 1909 is now a magnum bolt face (.264), so Id suggest a 404, on a 375 Ruger or 416 Ruger case, or even a 375 or 404 Chatfield Taylor, or whatever short magnum suits your fancy. I personally would opt for a 416 Ruger and be down with it...The Ruger case gives you a little more powder capacity, but the Chatfield Taylor wildcats are pretty darn nice, and you give up very little on the .338 case and can go in either direction, up or down. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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