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I had a Peruvian Mauser 98 action, a .338 Lothar Walthar barrel, a Swift dropbox for a .375, and a nice peice of wood.. I had Dennis Olson install the barrel with a long throat so that I could seat 300 gr. Woodleighs and Barnes bullets one caliber deep or .338 into the case, and added all the candy that goes with and Afrian style rifle,and I stocked it in a nice piece of Russian walnut. The box was seated back in the action and only opened in the front a thin hair to smooth up the lip. My test got me 340 Wby velocity without and signs of pressure and reloaded one case adn fired it 15 times and primer pockets stayed snug enough, so that was pleasing but I settled on splitting the difference between the .338 Win and 340 Wby for my loads for now... Accuracy averages about one inch with everyload I tested so far and it shoots std. handloads and factory .338 Win. with the same accuracy as the faster loads, God bless Lothar walthar..It dotes on my standard load of the 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS and I upped that load to 3190 FPS with milder pressure than my std. load. A real plus is how well that uncrowded magazine feeds and functions, like poop thru a goose, and it holds 6 rounds, Has Talley QD peep, and a 2.5x8 Leupold, barrel band front sight and swivel, 8" forend with ebony tip, and English in every respect.. Its the most interesting rifle I have played with in a long time, still testing loads with it. recoil is surprisingly easy even with the fast loads, and thats a plus to my old healing hand. I am just getting started on load testing, but its sure looks interesting so far. I will probably settle with a little increase in velocity and milder pressure than I get with a standard .338..but we will see.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | ||
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Ray, Got any pictures of this king of the plains rifle? Speer, Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon have reliable reloading data. You won't find it on so and so's web page. | |||
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PaulS, I do but will have to send them to your email.. My computer skills are limited and I have to confess mostly by choice. I have no idea how to post pictures. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, Is that gunpowder you are using or nuclear fuel rods to achieve those velocities? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Ray Get one of your pals to post some pictures of your rifle. Your stock work is always very nice. Craftsman | |||
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Mike, Not particularly, just the right powder and being able to seat the heavy for caliber bullets out in that 375 magazine with long throated chamber to match the magazine. I pick up a lot of powder space in the case, and keep my pressure at the same level, actually a bit less..Its just another way of improving the case, except you don't have to blow out the shoulder..I have been doing this for years on the 7x57, 9.3x62..You can pick up about 100 to 150 FPS, thats the real difference between the .338 Win. and the 340 Wby, all things being equal..this is the first time I have done it with a belted case, it worked!! and it seems to feed better as the rounds aren't so jammed up, I really like that, and wasn't expecting it,or rather it never occured to me!.. 100 to a 150 FPS ain't all that much anyway with a long 300 gr. Woodleigh or Barnes, so I will more than likely shoot a lot more of my 338 Win. loads in it anyway, but nice to know I have the option. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray's Peruvian.  Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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Thanks Custombolt.. NOtice how far out the RN 300 gr. Woodleighs are seated out of the case taking advantage of the long magazine and long throat, I figure most guns so set up get about 5 to 8% powder increase and about 150 FPS..Some calibers respond better than others, why I don't know have to ask the experts on that..I just try them and hope they work.. One thing however that I have discovered is that accuracy with shorter factory of handloads with bullets seated to the cannalure etc, don't forfiet any accuracy from the jump to the lands, as I have read from time to time...That has yet to be the case with me at any rate. The stock is about 3 or 4 shades darker than the photographs....Photography is my thing but I am working on it, its been a learn by my mistakes kind of situation..  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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1935 Peruvian? Hard to imagine a long throat 338 on an 09 Peruvian. Did Dennis build and checker the stock too? NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Normally, I have had Dennis or a fellow in Boise turn the wood using my wood and pattern stocks and most of my metal work is done by Dennis Olson and/or Jack Belk. On this gun I polished the action out and I did the stock and Pam, who does Dennis' checkering, checkered it.. The Peruvian is just a 98 Mauser and can be opened up to .375 length..I had Dennis open it in the rear and I fited the Swift 375 drop box I had on hand. I injured my hand in a roping incident about 18 months ago and had major reconstruction, so I can't checker anymore as arthritis set in on the injury. I can't shoot heavy recoiling guns anymore...I'm limited to a 9.3x62 or .338 Win, I can still inlet, shape, add cross bolts recoil pad grip cap and finish. so I'm good with that and I can still rope, so I am blessed at my age to be able to do these things. Im not a stockmaker by trade, just self taught and been at it since highschool, with a lot of help from a lot of fine gunmakers along the way. I'm not in the gun business..I do this for myself and sometimes a good friend, shoot them awhile,get bored and sell or trade them off and make something that interests me. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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No problem. I think I'm getting the hang of "working" these pictures now at least when I use this PC. I gave up picture attempts on my other one with Winows8. Saved photos were immediately poofed into thin air. Once you sort out the dead wood (things that don't work) it seems to get easy pretty quick if you have a decent computer to start with. This Windows 7 does fine. Really fast internet service helps a lot. Ennyhoo...About the short factory seated rounds doing as well as the ones you set tall, I'm somewhat intrigued. I've heard a few stories of LW barrels that shoot many loads about the same. Also, the word on AR has been that in many rifles, heavier bullets tend to shoot smaller groups in a deeply throated chamber. Were your low seated bullets around 300 grainers as well? If I had the necessary patience for another build, there's a good chance it would wear a LW. Thanks for getting the wheels turning. Neat story.
Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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I have been shooting some older or earlier 200 gr. Nosler Balistic tips, 210 Nolsers in this gun and they shoot to the same POI and shoot everybit as well group wise as the 300 gr. Woodleighs, 275 gr. Speer and 300 gr. BX, and all shoot to the same POI and they shoot in the one inch catagory..Its been a fun workout, love it when a plan comes together.. BTW I have two 338s one is a very accurate Ruger African, and the other is the Peruvian, so mostly I shoot mostly standard length ammo in both to simplify everything, but keep 60 loaded 300 grain Woodleighs and 60 275 gr. Speers on hand, its black bear season in Idaho and elk in the timber is just around the cornor. As to the long throats, I have a mod. 21 8x57 Brno, recently sold a switch barrel Brno mod 21 with a 9.3x62 barrel and a 7x57 barrel, all Brno mod 21 and 22s have 06 length magazines and corresponding long throats....I also recently sold a 275 Rigby I built and it was set up the same, been doing this for a long time now and not a one refused to shoot standard ammo as well as the long seated bullets..It may be a problem with bench resting but if there is any difference its only in a silly millitmeter, or a not so good barrel. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Very interesting especially the mention of the Ruger which always seem to be deep-throated in the chamber and as per numerous posts on here and elsewhere, Ruger 77's at least like the heavy loads the best. Seems like there is always the exception to the rule. Might be a bit of hit and miss with factory Rugers as well. Have a good season then. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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Hello Ray, I posted a question "on medium bor" about the 338 WMG "long throat". In fact I have 338 WMG Sako 85. A keeper in term of accuracy. Now I plan to buy a last 338 I'm interested by purchase a Ruger Hawkeye African I plan a cerakoted finish and a McMillan stock. The other idea would be to keep the factory barrel and just rim a long throat rearmer inside. My question is the following... Is the ruger hawkeye african model fixed box magazine is long enough to be used with a long throat ? I'm not able in AK to find one to check if it's a H&H length or a shorter. your "light" would be appreciate. Sincerely Ty | |||
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Hello, It seems some 338 production rifle are manufactured with an "old throat" style for 300 grains. In this case you have already a long throat build. I would like to know if the production Ruger Hawkeye African can be use like a long throat (barrel and magazine boxe)? Thanks | |||
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Ray, Thanks for the post, I was thinking about the same experiment for a 338 project. I do the same thing (long box & throat) when I build a 300 Win. it makes 3000+ fps with a 200 grain very doable in most 24" barrels. | |||
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Duane, I have used the long throats and long magazines on the 7x57, 8x57 and 9.3x62 for years and with the correct powders they do wonders, so had to try it on a short belted case. The more I play with this .338 the more impressed I become. I can easily duplicate the 340 Wby with ease, but I do wonder if the normal 150 FPS you get, maybe 200 with some loads is really worth it from a actual killing standpoint all things equal.. It may be me, and possibly my stock design (actually a Jack Huagh copy with a few very minor changes) but the recoil with my best and warmest loads ( maybe hottest loads) I can't tell much difference in recoil between these loads and my standard run of the mill .338 loads. Bottom line is I really like this gun and it feeds and functions 110% with both std and long .338 rounds..But I put it on Guns Int. and I'm going to sell it build another at 8 lbs. encluding scope..This one weighs 9-1/4 lbs. I think I can do this with Fishers round bottom metal opened up but with only 3 down, but its not a DG rifle so 3 down and one up is plenty. and besides I have a piece of damn near black with a ton of figure Russian Circassian walnut that I have been searching for some years now and I'm really anxious to use it.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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