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| I'm sure that gun cost a lot when it was commissioned, but all that gold inlay and Viking mythology doesn't translate very well to resale. As with everything, it all depends on whether the seller finds a buyer who really likes that style. I guess it might go from $3000 to $6000. |
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| With the take down feature and the craftsmen involved, I would think closer to $7500. |
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| Why even ask? Too many bottom feeders on AR. |
| | | Posts: 437 | Location: wisconsin | Registered: 20 June 2013 | 
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| I would consider myself fortunate if I could buy it for $12K. It is probably worth more than that. Beautiful!!!!! |
| | | Posts: 3073 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: 11 November 2004 |
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| Even really superb customs seem to be soft now.Martini&Hagn DSB estimated to bring 3k-5k GBP at auction in London next month;prices go down from there.Except for HuW,still in the $20-30k range. |
| | | Posts: 877 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 03 June 2005 |
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| quote: Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Why even ask? Too many bottom feeders on AR.
Chomp, chomp, chomp! It is a product of a poor economy. AR isn't the only place, Snipers Hide and 6mmBR.com are both sharing this relaxed gun frenzy. |
| | | Posts: 7782 | Location: Das heimat! | Registered: 10 October 2012 |
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| There is no way that a rifle like that with such refinement could be built for 6000 or 7000 USD. The most basic modern or reworked Mauser rifles built to any appreciable standard with best wood from reputable makers start at 10,000 USD.
This rifle seems to have all the attributes of a custom best and therefore I would consider its value to be in the region of 30,000 USD. If it was fitted in its own oak and leather case its value would be appreciably more. |
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| To many dealers 1/3 build cost = resale price.This is reflected in estimates& strike prices at auction.If oil hits $15/bbl&stays for 3 yrs,resale may be .3-.25 build cost.Buy it because you love it not as an "investment". |
| | | Posts: 877 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 03 June 2005 |
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| Duckboat, do you have any rifles or shotguns that you want to sell? |
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| quote: Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Why even ask? Too many bottom feeders on AR.
I have to agree. I'm not gonna call folks bottom feeders, but it seems to me like a lot of folks on AR try to low ball the value of fine custom rifles. While I enjoy a good deal on any significant purchase, I feel attempts to devalue and degrade the talents of true craftsmen is really poor form.
Matt
FISH!!
Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984:
"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."
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| | | Posts: 3300 | Location: Northern Colorado | Registered: 22 November 2005 |
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| To commission a similar rifle of this quality will take a minimum of 3-5 years. $30-40K.
About 5 years ago there was a similar rifle for sale at Cabela's in TX. It was a GMA action, left hand, take down, Oden grade wood, Engravings etc... that was commissioned for Colonel Craig Boddington it had him as a B. General which was not materialized. The rifle started at $55k and eventually sold in the $14 range.
A rifle of this quality is worth $17-22K easily. anything below is a steal |
| | | Posts: 1025 | Location: Brooksville, FL. | Registered: 01 August 2007 |
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| There's only one way to truly find out it's market value - put it up for auction. Everything else is a pure guess, especially with the unique nature of the custom work. With such special artwork, how much it cost to commission isn't directly related of its current market value. Just for illustration purposes, who reading this thread actually finds that gun attractive? I'm not talking about appreciating the artwork it took to create, but who would want to actually hunt with that gun or have it as a display piece? I'd venture to say that most people think the artwork on the metalwork actually diminished the value.
P.s.- I think its funny how a couple guys thought I was trying to lowball. I wouldn't buy that gun even if I was spending someone else's money. It has nothing to due with lowballing. It's a simple matter of trying to guess market value. When the poster described the rifle as "extraordinary", he wasn't kidding. Extraordinary doesn't always equate to high market price. |
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| I should tell you that i know Nelson and he is a terrible gunmaker and a horrible person and not to trust him or anything he says or builds. Then offer to take it off your hands for a couple of bucks in the spirit of being a generous person. But I can't say that. Mr. Nelson is one of our finest gunmakers alive and does impeccable work. Worth every penny. He is also a quality human being.
When this rifle first became available I offered the family through Steve $6000 and was turned down flat. I knew I was low balling the gun. If memory serves the owner had $14,000+ into it and worth every penny. Within 2-3 years of completion the owner passed away. If it was hunted with I would be surprised.
Steve is a friend of mine and we talked of this project as it was being made. What ever you pay for it, it would not come close to covering the cost of replacement. |
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| It says something that you know the gunmaker and the quality of his work, yet you offered $6000. You think he is one of the greatest gunmakers alive, yet $6000 is your best offer. Perhaps my estimate wasn't such a lowball. Replacement cost has no correlation to market price with such a "special" gun. |
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| quote: There's only one way to truly find out it's market value - put it up for auction.
That's certainly false. An auction MAY bring maximum value or more, but ONLY if 2 or more serious buyers want the item. Otherwise, when all the bottom feeders quit bidding, then the next bid will buy it at a relative bargain. Generally speaking, barring some highly desirable provenance, items such as a rifle MAY bring more by pricing it at private treaty and waiting until someone sees it who finds it irresistible.
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When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.
NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.
I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
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| Value is in the eye (and pocketbook) of the beholder. One might expect that a highly custom rifle like this one, built by some of the very best in their field, utilizing the best components, would bring at least as much as some inexpensive factory rifle that was well used, to the point of abuse, by some African PH who had a story written about him. Like the $75,000 asking price for a Winchester M-70. Wally Johnsons 375 For Sale Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com |
| | | Posts: 4224 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004 |
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| Is there a question or a point to your post? $6000 was all the gun money I had at the time. Mr. Nelson told me this morning one of his guns was on this site and I volunteered to check it out. I shared what I know about the gun in the hope of helping the original poster. So I ask you again what is your point? Ask your insurance agent about market value vs replacement cost. quote: Originally posted by duckboat:
It says something that you know the gunmaker and the quality of his work, yet you offered $6000. You think he is one of the greatest gunmakers alive, yet $6000 is your best offer. Perhaps my estimate wasn't such a lowball. Replacement cost has no correlation to market price with such a "special" gun.
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| Are you the One who wrote the book on inletting? quote: Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Why even ask? Too many bottom feeders on AR.
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| MLK,
Yes I wrote the book.
Dave Wesbrook |
| | | Posts: 437 | Location: wisconsin | Registered: 20 June 2013 |
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| Mr. Westbrook, I have 2 copies of your book. One all greasy and grimey out in the shop and the other prestine in my library. The first copy I saw was one Steve Nelson loaned me. Needless to say you did a great job. Thank you. |
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| I'm with Duane on this one... Get that gun to someone like Hallowell and let him find a buyer. To the right buyer it will be worth five figures.
Dick Wright
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| | | Posts: 669 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 27 March 2014 |
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| Stunning and a very fine example of craftsmanship.
I would take it to a high end auction house and sell it that way. If you need tax help, donate it to SCI or DSC or FNAWS for a tax deduction.
I would like to own one that pretty someday. |
| | | Posts: 10499 | Location: Texas... time to secede!! | Registered: 12 February 2004 |
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| If I needed to check on the value of such a rifle, I would ask Dave Wesbrook. In fact, I have done just that in the past.. One thing you are not clear on and that is was this the Guild Gun of the Year, or built by a Guild member? I think the 1993 Guild gun of the year built by Jack Belk, and two others recently sold for $125,000 or so Ive been told.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
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| | | Posts: 42297 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000 |
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| Thanks for the thoughtful responses.
Ray, I have no information that the rifle was a Guild gun of the year. I don't believe that it was. But, yes, the gun maker, Mr. Steve Nelson is a Guild member, as is Mr. Ralf Martini, who machined the barrel profile. |
| | | Posts: 203 | Location: in & of Dixie | Registered: 17 November 2002 |
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| Ray,
The rifle was not a guild "raffle rifle".
The original owner paid approximately $18,000 for the rifle and additional $10,000 for the engraving. He shot a moose in Sweden with it and died within four years of receiving the rifle.
His son (step-son?) pawned the rifle in Ca. and it eventually wound up at a collectors in Virginia.
Hope this helps,
Dave Wesbrook |
| | | Posts: 437 | Location: wisconsin | Registered: 20 June 2013 |
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| Duckboat-You are still a bottom feeder!!!! |
| | | Posts: 437 | Location: wisconsin | Registered: 20 June 2013 |
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| Westbrook, you've gone from writing a respected book to posting classy comments on an internet forum. Well done, my man! |
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| I don't hate the engraving and admire the skillful execution but I think it will take an unusual individual who will think it really adds value to the rifle AND that individual has to want it AND have money. A tough combination to find. That's one reason an auction is probably not the best way to go, although a nationally advertised one like Rock Island might work with a reserve. In addition, the caliber is not really all that helpful towards a sale. All that said, and I wouldn't pay this for it, but I feel the real selling price of that rifle will be somewhere between 10 and 15K. Having to name it exactly, I'd put it at $12,500 and hope it finds a buyer......IMO it WILL NOT bring that at auction. This is my educated guess of it's used sale value, but I stress the word guess. If someone told me I had to make an offer, I'd be at $8000 and probably would hope they wouldn't take it but I am an admitted bottom feeder.
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When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.
NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.
I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
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| Is this gun being offered for sale? |
| | | Posts: 3073 | Location: Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: 11 November 2004 |
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| This rifle is a work of art and a pleasure to see. Because of the effort and detail into it's making it's worth a lot of money.  |
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| To be honest it looks horrible. Form should follow function. Therein is the true "beauty" of a gun. The Colt 1911 is an example. Not a maching process or a feature that is superfluous.
This "thing" with its fleur-de-lys chequering, its gold inlay, damascus "fancies", its basic 'scope mounts, isn't. It's a triumph of good gunsmith skills misapplied. The "fancies" adding nothing to the function of the weapon.
The two folding blades don't appear to have been regulated and IMHO a rifle isn't MADE by Rigby (or Wharton) it's best marked as a7x57 or 7mm Mauser and not a .275.
Without the gold inlay and with "standard" chequering it would be worth USD 3,250 in the UK.
As it is the gold inlay and fleur-de-lys chequering reduces that value IMHO. A take down Holland and Holland will be worth USD 6,500 in the UK.
And a take down H & H or Westley or Rigby this "thing" isn't.
Harsh I know but bespoke guns are like top end diamonds. You grade and price them against other diamonds of known market value. So with bespoke guns.
In UK H & H, Rigby, Westley and in the "independant" makers Wharton, Paul Roberts...and maybe Proctor set the market value. This isn't one of the first three nor one of the second three.
In Mainland Europe its mounts would be scorned as inferior to Suhler claw mounts. It would be thought thetefore second tier to anything made by the best Liege trained or German gunmakers where claw mounts, on bespoke rifles, are the acme.
There it is. It can't be worth more than, here this side of the Atlantic, what our "best" bespoke rifles are priced at. And I'd warrant it isn't Griffin & Howe worth either.
And the wood, which could have been its saving, is nothing special. Pretty plain. I've seen better on USD 500 Parker-Hale M81 Classic rifles. |
| | | Posts: 6824 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 18 November 2007 |
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| I know nothing about custom rifles and find this thread very interesting. I feel sad for the man who had the rifle built, but did not live to really hunt and enjoy it. I feel sad for the son who left it in a pawn shop! There seem to be some life lessons there! And then we come back to "custom rifles" where the prevailing wisdon is that a real custom rifle is valuable only to the person who commissioned it, almost by definition! I find it an attractive rifle, and might well pay $6K for it, but then it would probably sit in the safe only to be taken out periodically, fondled and then put back. A sad end for a firearm. Peter.
Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
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| | | Posts: 10515 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004 |
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| quote: Originally posted by enfieldspares:
To be honest it looks horrible. Form should follow function. Therein is the true "beauty" of a gun. The Colt 1911 is an example. Not a maching process or a feature that is superfluous.
This "thing" with its fleur-de-lys chequering, its gold inlay, damascus "fancies", its basic 'scope mounts, isn't. It's a triumph of good gunsmith skills misapplied. The "fancies" adding nothing to the function of the weapon.
The two folding blades don't appear to have been regulated and IMHO a rifle isn't MADE by Rigby (or Wharton) it's best marked as a7x57 or 7mm Mauser and not a .275.
Without the gold inlay and with "standard" chequering it would be worth USD 3,250 in the UK.
As it is the gold inlay and fleur-de-lys chequering reduces that value IMHO. A take down Holland and Holland will be worth USD 6,500 in the UK.
And a take down H & H or Westley or Rigby this "thing" isn't.
Harsh I know but bespoke guns are like top end diamonds. You grade and price them against other diamonds of known market value. So with bespoke guns.
In UK H & H, Rigby, Westley and in the "independant" makers Wharton, Paul Roberts...and maybe Proctor set the market value. This isn't one of the first three nor one of the second three.
In Mainland Europe its mounts would be scorned as inferior to Suhler claw mounts. It would be thought thetefore second tier to anything made by the best Liege trained or German gunmakers where claw mounts, on bespoke rifles, are the acme.
There it is. It can't be worth more than, here this side of the Atlantic, what our "best" bespoke rifles are priced at. And I'd warrant it isn't Griffin & Howe worth either.
And the wood, which could have been its saving, is nothing special. Pretty plain. I've seen better on USD 500 Parker-Hale M81 Classic rifles.
Agree 100%. |
| | | Posts: 392 | Location: Australia | Registered: 14 May 2008 |
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| | | Posts: 13466 | Location: faribault mn | Registered: 16 November 2004 |
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| I see the rifle has been sold. How much, can it be asked, did it sell for? |
| | | Posts: 6824 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 18 November 2007 |
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| This rifle reminds me of one built for one of the Indian princes back in the 1920's, a lot of decoration wrapped around what is basically a very ordinary creation. I much prefer my little 7X57, built on a G33/40 action and stocked with a relatively plain piece of wood, which has accompanied me to Africa and has done everything I have asked of it in admirable fashion.
If I wanted to go with something showier, it would be my Biesen Model 70, also in 7X57, with a beautiful stock, but really too nice to hunt hard with.
If I wanted to go with something more classic, then it would be my DSB Mauser Typ B, with Mauser scope mounts and a very nice piece of wood, also in 7X57.
(You can't have to many 7X57's!) |
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| [QUOTE]Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Rifle sold for $12,850. This was the "buy it now" price. Maybe they should have ask more. |
| | | Posts: 437 | Location: wisconsin | Registered: 20 June 2013 |
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| Dave, The gun Im talking about was a 22 L.R. made on a 1903 Springfield action, metal by Jack and it apparantly was a guild gun of the year in 1993 best I recall, and it was auctioned off at the guild..I have the article on it in Guns and Ammo somewhere around here....Am I wrong. I was told it sold last year for $125,000. Dunno?
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
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| | | Posts: 42297 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000 |
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