I see all over the internet where folks (to include wood dealers and stock makers) who claim the Bastogne is a hybrid of California English Walnut and Claro. Not true. That hybrid is called Royal Walnut.

Bastogne is a hybrid of California English Walnut and American Black Walnut. This hybrid is stronger with tighter pores and is possibly the best for big bore rifles. Although it can be more difficult for the stock maker to carve.

I now have three beautiful rifles stocked with Bastogne. DPCD worked two of them for me, and he told me they were very hard.

Be careful when someone tells you they are selling Bastogne, you may end up with Royal Walnut. And I despise Claro.

I thought all of these were Bastogne

From Cecil Fredi



ebay



Wright ( my fav)

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
I thought all of these were Bastogne

From Cecil Fredi



ebay



Wright ( my fav)

Did they turn out to be otherwise?

I'm not sure on the third one.

And all along I thought that Claro was the west coast version of eastern black walnut.

Suggest a look-see at "Wood Database" Great information,.and avoids inaccurate conclusions

My understanding is this:

Bastogne: Juglans nigra x Juglans regia, ie black walnut crossed with european walnut.

Paradox: Juglans hindsii x Juglans regia, i.e. claro crossed with european.

Royal: Juglans californica x Juglans nigra, i.e. southern california black walnut, crossed with black walnut.

My experience of AU-grown Paradox is that it makes the best stock wood of the three structurally, but it is less likely to colour up than AU-grown Bastogne. Bastogne I have milled has been too damned heavy, slightly more brittle, but tends to produce less white wood. They both grow with typical hybrid vigour, yet lay down hard wood at least locally. Can be a bit porous, though. Growth rings an inch or more each year are always going to produce "spring wood" which is open pored. It's easy enough to tell the difference between Paradox and Bastogne trees once you know how.

Royal walnut I have much less experience with.

The dark horse for me has been Japanese walnut which I am lucky enough to have milled a few dozen or so mature trees. Wonderful wood from each of those trees. It's rare down here, but there are a few trees in NZ also. Not sure if there are any hybrids of it around. I'd rather be looking at a good seedling Euro tree than any of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Juglansregia:

The dark horse for me has been Japanese walnut which I am lucky enough to have milled a few dozen or so mature trees. Wonderful wood from each of those trees. It's rare down here, but there are a few trees in NZ also. Not sure if there are any hybrids of it around. I'd rather be looking at a good seedling Euro tree than any of them.

Interesting, could you elaborate a bit on the Japanese walnut? Certainly quite common in New Zealand, often lining the banks of small waterways where it grows rapidly. I was under the impression that Japanese walnut was quite the poor cousin compared to the other walnuts, with relatively pale wood.

I have most of a large english walnut stashed away (been air drying for around 8 years now). I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of having a similar japanese walnut milled based on what I thought I knew, but perhaps I should reconsider?

Cecil Fredi lives about 10 minutes from me and his Bastogne Walnut IS Bastogne Walnut. He has a huge warehouse behind his home with over 30 thousand gun stock blanks for rifles and shotguns. Along with Bastogne Walnut, he also has English, Black, Claro and Circassion Walnut, Myrtle Wood, and Shell Maple, among others. Visiting Cecil's is like visiting a high end chocolate and candy store. He also has gun stock blanks that are in various stages of drying that are stored on the premises and outside of the warehouse. Everything is neatly stacked and tagged and cataloged. My big bores all carry Cecil's Bastogne Walnut that he and I handpicked together, which has beautiful Fiddleback patterns in each stock. Bastogne is indeed heavy, but it helps with recoil. I have other rifles that carry his Myrtle Wood (Tiger and Fiddleback) and Shell Maple. Cecil has, for the past 30+ years, gone around the country buying trees that are ready to be cut,has them cut down and then properly cut into the right pieces to be used for gun stock blanks, and shipped to Las Vegas for drying. By the way, Cecil sells his gun stocks to many big gun companies as well as individuals, and ships all over the world.

G'Day PaulNZ, if you send me a PM with your email, I'd be happy give an opinion on your questions based on what I've encountered. Walnut quality in NZ is very, very variable (I mean physical quality as opposed to figure and colour), there are a lot of what-ifs and buts that I won't cloud a forum with.

The Bastogne grown in AU is on average heavier and harder than any I've seen from the US. That applies on average for any walnut, except that grown in Tasmania which is generally very different to the mainland AU walnut in texture.

Cecil is a nice bloke, very knowledgeable. I am thankful for advice he freely gave me some time ago about milling walnut. Paul Dressel also. If I remember rightly, Cecil ran a machined stock business back in the day (?). That would have given him hands-on knowledge and experience about his product that relatively few blank cutters/sellers get.

Yes, at one time Cecil was building rifles and most of them were his designed thumb hole rifles. He took your personal measurements and built the stock to your dimensions which made those rifles very comfortable. Here's a picture of some of the thumb holes that Cecil built for me. I have many other traditional rifle stocks on my dangerous game and plains game rifles that have Cecil's Bastogne wood on them. From top to bottom: Tiger Myrtle (.270), Bastogne Walnut(.375)(with a lot of color and fiddleback), Fiddleback Myrtle(.300 WSM) and Shell Maple(.22-250).

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Suggest a look-see at "Wood Database" Great information,.and avoids inaccurate conclusions

I contacted the gentleman who put together the “Wood Database” report. He stated that the majority opinion is that Bastogne is Claro (this is what he called California Walnut) combined with American Black Walnut. He did agree that some stockers and suppliers have varying opinions on the hybrid.

This argument has been around for many years, cussed and discussed..I don't like Bastogne anyway, and not on big bore rifles, Its usually too heavy for my needs. I believe I have seen good and bad wood from most wood. I have only one stock of claro and it is hard as woodpecker lips, beautiful blood red fiddle back and checkered great...The only one Ive really liked, and was given to me by the late Tony Barnes of Twin Falls,perhaps the best gunsmith and stock maker Ive ever known..He owned a real estate business and a big farm and only did his magic for friends, relitives and a few gun scribes..I personally like Trukish or Russian walnut these days and until recently still had one " real French walnut blank from years gone by but a fine gent wanted it more than I...There are two kinds of walnut and that's hard shell and soft shell, that's it, the coined names mean nothing to me..Right or wrong I trust my pocket knife more than opinnions..