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Is there any place I can find a list what Mauser actions are "good" and which ones to stay away from? I tried searching the forum but could not find anything. I would like to build a few more rifles and start looking for actions. I have found a few but was told they were to soft. A few others had horrible weld jobs or the stamps had been polished off so I steered clear. I am just looking for information at this point on which actions are worth messing with and which ones to steer clear of. Both short and long actions. Thank you! | ||
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The Mauser M91 through M98 bolt actions: A shop manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen | |||
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Ok, there are no "bad" Mauser actions. That book will tell you about the various actions, and what levels of pressure each one will take. No such thing as a bad Mauser; it depends on what caliber you want to put on it and some design features. And, of course, date of manufacture is important too. Tell me what calibers you want to build, and I will give you a recommendation. Too soft for what? Any of them can be re-heat treated if necessary. Do not ever buy one that has been welded on, on the receiver ring. Marks ground off is not important. You can tell what they are, usually. Long and short? No such thing except a Kurz Mauser, which are super rare. Standard, and intermediate; not much difference, and no difference in the length of mag boxes. Again, what calibers you want is the first consideration. PM me if you want to talk about Mausers. I have every variation from 1871 to 1945. And I have used everything from 91 to 98 for custom builds. Oh, there is one bad Mauser; All Chinese made ones. | |||
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The best ones are those that are still on the original military barrel as there's a good chance that they/ve not been mistreated, overhardened, or fired with excessive overloads to within an inch of their lives...so to speak. | |||
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Well I was told it was to soft, I didn't want it anyway. The guy that told me it was to soft really did not have much experience either. Most of the ones I have seen are ones that the Israel's modified or have been sporterized and had holes drilled in them for scope mounts etc. I am mostly curious at this point. I think my Dad has the book you speak of, should have probably read that prior to asking. Haha! I don't have any particular calibers I am looking at the moment. Takes money and right now I have none for a project like that so have not given it much thought. Just interested in learning mostly. | |||
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The ones the Israelis converted to 7.62 are all Czech, FN or German 98s; all among the best. The book won't tell you that. What model was supposedly soft? | |||
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I built quite a few during the 80's + 90's on 98 actions.I had no problems with any of them but I agree with dpcd (avoid the chinese).Even with the magnum calibres all that was required was opening the bolt face but the actions were strong enough.Too bad you did'nt get started back then when we were getting Mauser Banner receivers for $50.00.There were a lot of bargains when the USSR went down. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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Aside from the issue of strength for a particular caliber I tend to consider the resale value of the custom rifle as all will be eventually available for resale, either by the owner or his survivors. Even though a Mark 10 is plenty strong, a custom built on that action will never bring the resale price as the identical rifle with a commercial Oberndorf action. As a "using" rifle I prefer FN actions. | |||
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? Chinese ? Do you mean Contract Mausers made by FN for China. The issues with these are two fold. Thin case hardening and relatively soft receivers as were other FN's of the 30's Secondly the Chines stored the rifles without cleaning and corrosion protection. | |||
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No; the ones made in China. The FNs are fine for standard cartridges. Problem with checking hardness of any Mauser is that it is impossible to check the place where it is important; the locking recesses. It is just assumed that the outside is representative of the inside. Again, it is the cartridge that you are using that is important; you can put a 35 Remington (or 7.65 argentine) on a 91 Argentine and be perfectly happy. Put a 300 Win Mag on it and it won't last long. As for resale value; I never consider that; if I want a rifle on a particular make or model, I have it. It is the actual process and ownership that matters. | |||
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Husqvarna 640 or 146.. Superbly made commercial M98! I would not even look at the military M98s when you have the HVA 640 and 146 to choose from! | |||
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I'd take a little issue with cost of spoterizing "not worth it" We have brand spanking new 98 system actions being made right now that need upwards of $1500.00 to make them work...I'm not talking about making them go "bang" I'm talking about a 100% reliable DGR. Let me add that Satterlee's actions come out of the box ready to go. The epitome of 98's are usually to be found in So American contract actions...and they are getting hard to come by | |||
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I just picked up a 1950-51 vintage Husqvarna 640 in 30/06 for under $400. Bedded the stock since these tend to split, put in a single stage Timney trigger and for less than $500 have a great rifle in a great caliber.   | |||
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Sporterizing a Mauser makes it worth less. I don't think Duane has ever sporterized anything. I'm not sure what Earl wants to do with a Mauser. Sporterize it on the cheap or build a custom rifle that will hold it's value for 100 years. Sorry, I don't have a pic of a sporterized rifle, but here's what can be done with a military Mex98.  5556GDBob by JAMES ANDERSON, on Flickr 5569GDBob by JAMES ANDERSON, on Flickr | |||
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For you Husqvarna lovers; realize that those are FN made actions; 98 Mausers, no one in Sweden made a 98. The 96 was good enough for them; I have some and I, mostly, agree. Great deal at 400 though. I don't think anyone is talking about busting down a collectable Military Mauser these days. Hope not. If you want to do that, I have some for sale. | |||
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Nice rifle, James: I agree..to me "sporterizing" does usually mean f..ing up a nice military example.. You chose well using the Mexican action...the right size for the application, kind of in a class all by itself, but 98 system thru and thru | |||
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Okay to answer several questions. Dpcd I do not recall but believe it may have been a Chinese version. It has been a few years ago. Almost all my rifles except two are on Mauser actions. 3 on Charles Daly actions. 7x57, 6.5-06, and a 6.5x55. My brother has another 7x57 that my dad built for him. When I am ready to build another, it will be for myself. I do not have a license nor do I have the time to buy and sell them. When I am ready I really do not want to weld up a bunch of holes or have it re treated. I realize that drives up cost for me but I am not building it to resell. I have not put much thought into calibers. All my rifles are used for hunting and if I built another I would probably want a varmit caliber. I already have a 22-250 so would build a 6mm, 25-06, or something around that area. Most of the ones I have run across have been effed up with several holes being drilled in them, pitted very bad, or someone welded it in high school type thing. I have run across a few decent ones but I am mostly wanting to learn about them more so I know what I am looking at when I am ready to proceed with a project. Thank you for all the information. I appreciate it. | |||
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Tom, Would my Banner mauser with a small flower stamped on it be a Chinese made? | |||
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I'm not adequately schooled in metallurgy...But those values you shared seem petty darn soft in lot of cases..If I read conversions correctly, 100 B would come out to about 23 C...The softest receivers I had tested were the 60's FN's..about 24C. I have a small portable tester that I've had compared to large professional units and find it comes pretty darn close.. Very few in the low 30's (c). Anyone care to venture a fact based opinion? | |||
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Just a small flower could be a purchased Import; the actual Chinese made ones (collectors call them Chang kai Chek) have an assortment of bogus markings from swastikas (before the Nazis used it), to MAUSER banners, bows and arrows, etc. They are very sloppy, soft, not well made, and as stated, poorly stored. Also, they will have Chinese words burned into the stock which indicates the units they belonged to. Last one I had was from the South River Brigade. | |||
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There are 5 Mexican Mausers running on gunbroker at this time. 5 days left on the auction. The auction is for all 5 actions. They look to be in good shape. These would be good iron to own. A great start for a stable of intermediate calibers. | |||
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Doug,I understand.About 20 years ago I bought a Ruger #1 international in 7X57 for my youngest son's 18th birthday scoped w/ a Nikon from a member here because it was so damned pretty that he would not take it into the woods,thus his selling it. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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I understand. Why take Ray Bans into the woods when you can use Foster Grants at a 90% savings. Why a premium down sleeping bag when a stack of moving blankets will work . Boots..hell, sneakers from Wal Mart will do just fine. $800 for good binoculars? Ridiculous...Mail order crap at $19.95 plenty adequate! Honest wear and use does not distract from the enjoyment or beauty of first class equipment. | |||
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Not everyone who has a very nice custom rifle drives a Bently nor travels in a jet. Some of us drive ford trucks and save for years. We like fine rifles and forgo other things. We take them out and hunt with them too. I have one that took a tumble down a dry wash with me in the Texas hill country. I cracked the forend that day. Later it chipped out but I glued the piece back in. Nice reminder of a nice hunt with my son. I have another I took to Alaska and hunted through 7 days of rain and salt spray. I even got swept of a rock by a wave and the rifle and I took a spill in the ocean. I got my bear and a scratch or two on the stock that day. After tearing it completely apart drying it off and re-oiling the metal still look great. Some people build them to admire, others to shoot on the range. Myself I enjoy hunting with them and building memories with my kids. There is a difference between abuse and honest wear. | |||
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Doug W...Then we can both be happy with our choice of value? | |||
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Doug, I don't think anybody has looked down on anybody. I don't have a Bentley S. now. | |||
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The 'Standard Modell' Mauser after 1924 shows two different hardness ratings. The first is '99 B' and the second is '31 C core, 43 C case'. The '99 B' seems to be soft. I wonder when they made the change to '31 C core, 43 C case'. I have two 'Mauser Banner" actions with a date under the logo (1933 & 1934). One I had built for the 6.5 x 57 Mauser. The other is available. Jim | |||
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According the ASTM standard E140 for hardness conversion of non-austenitic steel, the C scale bottoms at 20 Rc which is close to 100 Rb. However, the B scale and C scale do not overlap in the ASTM standard. It would take a lot more information on how that chart was made for me to use it. We don't know what state the receivers were in, what test equipment was used, where they tested the hardness, how many tests per receiver, etc. It's information, but without context, it isn't useful information. The 1030 plain carbon steel that my company makes come off of the hot mill at about Rb 80-95. From what I have seen most Mauser actions are 1030-1035 plain carbon steel. So, the Rb numbers in the chart mirror un-heat treated as forged values. Just heat treating 1030 without case hardening will get you into the low 20's Rc. Adding a case will reliably get you into the high 20's low 30's or higher measured on the C scale. So, what does this mean? Not much. Without knowing the above about the receivers tested, it is just information. Jeremy | |||
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Maybe it’s me, but I get the impression from this thread that “sporterizing” a Mauser is a bad thing. Sure, times have changed, back in the sixties and seventies, Mausers were extremely plentiful, and I’m sure some very collectible milsurp rifles were vandalized by sporterizing them. Unmolested milsups are appreciating in value very quickly now,even it it’s not in prime collectible condition. But just because someone elects to sporterize a military rifle (assuming of course it has already lost its collectible value) doesn’t mean it’s a losing proposition. I can’t afford the class of rifles shown here most of the time, but I can dream or at least make my versions of them. Shoot Safe, Mike NRA Endowment Member | |||
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True; Oberndorf Mausers are no longer $50; but Still plenty of actions out there suitable for building rifles on; whether at the low end, or the high. Do not overlook the Turk 38s; they are fine actions and still plentiful. I have some, if someone wants one. Large ring, small thread; standard 98 Mauser (Yes, totally Mauser, design). Or any Czech Mauser; all good and out there. Now, as for hardness, there are some pre WW1 actions that will set back, but most won't with standard cartridges. Today I got back from heat treatment, two Argentine 1909 receivers, made by DWM. Yes they are 98 Mausers. I specify a hardness of RC35-40 and a case depth of .010=.015. and they do that. If there is any doubt in a 1909, (and I usually use them as is), that removes it. Don't get too hung up about it; you can ask someone if you have doubts. Oh, gas at 23 cents a gallon? I remember that; but gas is cheaper now; it sells here for $1.74. Twenty three 1955 cents is now worth $2.12. Don't wish for the old days too hard..... Just information. | |||
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I think too many here are confusing the end result with the process. IMO Earl wants to BUILD his rifle. I would encourage that. Duane W and Lester Brooks have shown how to build from a blank. Lester did it on the tailgate of his truck. The end result was excellent. There are several summer NRA classes. 1 week and 2 weeks in length across this great country where those that have an interest in doing just that can get some great instruction. I would think that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. Starting with an FN commercial action is a CHEAP means to an end. Not a lot of learning process left. I built my first Mauser on a Brazilian Model 1908 while I was enrolled in TSJC for gunsmithing. I didn't replace the bottom metal but installed a hinge and hand made a lever like original Mauser sporters. I learned to TIG weld with a dirt cheap scratch start TIG kit for a little AC/DC buzz box and welded on a great looking handle. I machined the bolt shroud for a 2pos safety. Barreled it from a barrel blank and learned to turn it down. (I'm sure some reading that are getting the vapors) And finally stocked it from a blank. I didn't buy a commercial action, install a pre turned barrel, glass it into an over inlet "semi inlet" and rattle can it clear. I learned several processes along the way. Some could be picked up at a local JR college, welding supply openhouse, summer class etc. | |||
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