quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Matt: Was Rigby the maker of Selby's gun. I would be surprised if they were since the gun was not a bespoke rifle.

Rigby did build Selby's rifle. Harry said he bought the rifle second hand, as the gent who ordered it wasn't pleased with it. If bespoke means made-to-order, then it is bespoke. I could care less, one way or the other. I just love the lines of that classic and famous Rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:
I have a original Rigby 416 made early post war (1946/47 if I remember correctly) on a std 98 action.
I can send you some pictures or measurements if you like.
Note I am leaving for SCI tomorrow and will not be able to do ANYTHING until the week of 1/28 at the earliest.
ken@kebcollc.com

Kebco, you have a PM. Wish I'd run into you before the magazine work was done. Thanks a billion!
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by PAUL J.A.:
loading slot to rear was opened up and ground down as well and slot in front ring ,this project wont be cheap metalwise...

Give me a break. Custom rifles are never cheap. The metalwork on a custom rifle is never cheap. What will the opening of the bridge and the ring add to this project cost-wise? Maybe 5 or 10%?

Sorry if I come-off a bit terse, but there seems to be a lot of nit-picking on this thread.

I can't wait to see the finished rifle Matt.

Depends on who is cutting the metal...functionality and safety were my first concern. After that it what the person wants to take on.

I was just saying you could buy something like this:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti...x?Item=326167194#PIC

open the bolt face work on the rails abit, get some of Duane's custom bottom metal and a CZ 416 box and follower...and done!
$1300 action with 3 position saftey
$525 bottom metal
$125 gunsmithing
$45 follower and box
$1995
If gunsmiths charged what most (doctors charge...heck even what a mechanic charged to work on your car the option would look better and better...I am just saying cutting the metal out and then building a proper box, follower is not a easy task to take on. But like I said earlier that is what is cool about a custom...it is what you want...not what anybody else wants. He just said he was on a limited budget and I can tell you from a ton of custom gun buying experience this project would not be for the faint of heart. I would say $7,500 easy with a nice chunk of wood done proper...you might save $1,000 going the CZ way...Cheers!

Ed

That rifle has inspired a lot of folks. So much so that I saw two original early 416 Rigby's at the Beinfeld show in Vegas last week priced well over $30,000. One very clean on in a case had an asking price of $60,000!!

I too have thought of just such a project , only with the shorter, saner and safer .416 Ruger case.

quote:

458Win: That rifle has inspired a lot of folks....I too have thought of just such a project, only with the shorter, saner and safer .416 Ruger case

Or a 404J (really a 423) loaded to modern specs

I understand Rigby is offering a Rifle now that replicates Harry's Rifle, but with a magnum mauser action. They might do well to offer it in 416 Ruger with a standard 98 action. No flies on the 416 Ruger.

You could even engrave the receiver like this and only have to change the Rigby name to Ruger

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
You could even engrave the receiver like this and only have to change the Rigby name to Ruger

That would be cool. I considered doing just that at the suggestion of an AR member when the 416 Ruger came out, but I just couldn't make it that easy.

The old Rigby's really are cool but the 416's are still large rifles. Done up on a standard length action in something like the 416 Ruger they could be built about as light and sleek as the 350 Rigby's.



Here is a photo of a very early 416 Rigby that Zambian PH Adrian Carr inherited from his father Norman. It probably has well over 1000 bull elephants to it's credit




Rigby knew how to build a reliable rifle

quote:

Rigby knew how to build a reliable rifle

I am pretty sure that Mauser built the Rigbys in their entirety to Rigby's specifications.
Maybe only the engraving and proofing of the guns were done in England.

Looking at the top of Selby's gun, it looks as though much of the opening up must have been done at the rear of the action and in the rear of the magazine. See how the rear bridge is let out a bit further back on top i the charger guide area? Looks like an '09 Argentine cutout but a little deeper still.

I think I read somewhere that Mauser '98 actions have been tested with any one of the three lugs on the bolt removed and they stand up as long as there are two with good bearing surfaces in the action.
The project in question would at least have SOME of the lower lug recess in the action to help out.

I like the looks of Selby's Rigby and often think of doing the same. It just speaks "Africa" to me more than any other rifle. The rear sight arrangement is particularly interesting.

I still may attempt to duplicate this rifle, as I have all the required parts and tooling. Maybe in a shorter cartridge as the 416 Howell: Duplicates the Rigby ballistics in a standard length action. Or a 400 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

Rigby knew how to build a reliable rifle

I am pretty sure that Mauser built the Rigbys in their entirety to Rigby's specifications.
Maybe only the engraving and proofing of the guns were done in England.

Maybe,

It's accepted that Mauser at least built the bbl actions on the early ones.
But Rigby also built doubles that also held up superbly and handled like - a Rigby.

458Win, point well taken.

Was thinking in the Mauser vein there...

Woodhunter, I feel the same way about my 425 Westley Richards. Just LOOKS like Africa!

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
458Win, point well taken.

Was thinking in the Mauser vein there...

Woodhunter, I feel the same way about my 425 Westley Richards. Just LOOKS like Africa!

425 WR is at the top of my list also.
TIA! (That is Africa!)

Matt, please keep us updated on this project and post all measurements and pics you get of the original! I had been contemplating this build myself and have been patiently waiting on your progress. I plan on doing the same conversion , possibly on a commercial FN, but possibly on an '09. Good Luck! Lee.

458win where was the 416 you posted with the sights in the white ,is that someones recent build ??...paul

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
Matt, please keep us updated on this project and post all measurements and pics you get of the original! I had been contemplating this build myself and have been patiently waiting on your progress. I plan on doing the same conversion , possibly on a commercial FN, but possibly on an '09. Good Luck! Lee.

Mine is being built on an 09'. I've asked for progress pics. We'll see. My wife has been on the phone with apple. I haven't been able to attach pics to emails, or upload pics to photobucket. We'll get it fixed though. Matt

is there any talk of reheat treating on the 09,,i had a 7mm built years ago and it was done tho im not so sure if it was needed...paul

quote:

Originally posted by PAUL J.A.:
is there any talk of reheat treating on the 09,,i had a 7mm built years ago and it was done tho im not so sure if it was needed...paul

Action's going out to Pac-Met before it's all said and done. My GM doesn't think it needs it, but having it done boasts my confidence. I imagine none of the original Rigby's standard action 416's had any reheat treating done to them after being opened up. I've heard from a very reliable source, that Paul Roberts saw several of these rifles back in his shop with lug setback issues. However, I haven't attempted to ask Paul if this is true. Having said that, original Magnum Mausers 416's have been known to develope lug setback, so recarburizing/heat treat is mandatory for this project, in my mind. I was sold on PAC-Met's process by reading Echols, and Burgess' thoughts on the subject several years ago here on AR.

I think that's a good idea idea on the heat treating. No need to go through all of the work only to have a failure on your second box of ammo...


If you need pics posted shoot me a PM, can do it in a jiffy when you get them...

Here is a link to the Article that first made me obsessed with doing this project:

ezine.nitroexpress.info/NickuduFiles/Africa-PDF/Africa317.pdf

You will have to copy and past it to your browser.

in the article on the selby ,notice that the extractor was altered to close on a chambered round ,,3 down and one in the spout ,,it works but im not crazy about it ,,and yes he goes on to say how it was built from a military action nothing special ,,but longer bolt throw so i guess enough was taken out of the rear,,...paul

quote:

Originally posted by PAUL J.A.:
in the article on the selby ,notice that the extractor was altered to close on a chambered round ,,3 down and one in the spout ,,it works but im not crazy about it ,,and yes he goes on to say how it was built from a military action nothing special ,,but longer bolt throw so i guess enough was taken out of the rear,,...paul

I would love to see a photo of the receiver underside with the stock and bottom metal removed. A photo might not exist though.

I have botched a couple of M98's by attempting to alter for a longer cartridge. Hence my interest in the Selby M98 modifications. Extending the bolt travel to the rear sure gives a sloppy bolt at rear travel, sometimes sloppy enough to bind on the return stroke.

However, Rigby's modifications are of interest and I remain curious. Selby liked the rifle and ran hundreds of rounds through it, so the performance must have been satisfactory.

Matt, whose bottom metal are you going to use and how many rounds will it hold?

I took BaxterB up on an offer by him to stop by the Kynoch booth and pick me up a Silvers pad for the project. Thanks again Baxter! The pieces are slowly coming together. Haven't completely decided on the wood blank yet. I thought I had, I'm having second thoughts. I never would have thought that choosing wood would be this tough.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
Matt, whose bottom metal are you going to use and how many rounds will it hold?

Don't even get me started Lee! This, as you might imagine, has been the most vexing part of this project. I could write a long, melodramatic missive detailing my many woes in this matter, but I will just skip all that for now. I am using a Modified Wiebe #4MXJ bottom metal. This one is a five-down drop box 404 Jeffrey unit (now discontinued). If I recall correctly, it should hold 4 down. My GM tells me that Duane made the front tang on this one almost about 0.10" too long. Don't know if he did it on purpose or not, but I assume so because he knew what we were going to do with it. I think my GM welded up the rear guard screw hole and moved it forward. This obviously moved the magazine to the rear. I'll continue this later. Gotta go.

Continuing on with the bottom metal thread:

I'm sure some of you will ask about the length of the magazine, and the max cartridge OAL. I had hoped to be able to use any and all existing factory loads, which can be as long as 3.75". Thankfully, it seems that most 416 Rigby factory loads have gotten shorter. This is because the crimp grooves have been moved up higher on most .416 caliber bullets to keep the OAL length of 416 Remington loads at or under 3.6". At least I assume this is the case. Hornady and Federal load their rounds just under 3.6". Barnes fusion ammo has a Max of 3.625" (according to Barnes, I haven't actually measured them). And some recently manufactured Kynoch soft and solid ammo measured at a max of 3.685". I haven't layed hands on any Norma Ammo, and they won't return my emails, so I don't know what their max OAL is. I bet their 450 grain Ph ammo is 3.74" or so. Here on AR, the likes of Duane Wiebe and D'Arcy Echols have cautioned me to not open the magazine any longer than you would for a 375 H&H, which would only allow the use do rounds at or under 3.6". This is sound advice. However, my magazine is 0.10" farther rearward than standard, so my GM is lengthening the magazine to 3.73"' which should allow me to use rounds with a max OAL of 3.7". I have a couple of samples of ancient Kynoch. They are both too long, at 3.74", but my chances of ever needing to use this Stone Age ammo Is very slim.

If anyone has some Norma 416 Rigby ammo on hand I would love to know how long it is.
Matt

I measured one round I had it was 3.790

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
I measured one round I had it was 3.790

Ed

Wow, that's way long! Is that the Norma 450 grain PH load?

Sorry-- 3.690 Sorry I got to get a pair of digital calipers--my eyes were never that good...still pretty long for a M98...good luck with your project..I'd like to see it when it is done.

Ed

No it is an old round nose barnes solid.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
No it is an old round nose barnes solid.

Ed

Handload or factory?

Either way, that length should work in my rifle. Thanks for measuring it.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
Matt, whose bottom metal are you going to use and how many rounds will it hold?

Forgot to mention, it should hold four down. The Layne Simpson article said that Harry's rifle held three down. An article written by Harry Selby himself said the rifle originally held 4, but Rigby replaced the magazine when they refinished and rebarreled it. It on held three after that.

factory!

Looks like this.

http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...round-nose-box-of-20

Ed

Awesome thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by PAUL J.A.:


this gun is pretty spartan and it still ran about 5-6k its a 458wm and i,ll second duanes opinion ...paul

That thing is gorgeous! Who built it?