My 6 grand daughters are just getting into rifle shooting and all are small of stature.
They tried my military 30 carbine and ammo and love it, so I was thinking about buying starter rifles chambered in 30 carbine that they could use for pigs and target plinking.
PM me if you have an interest in making 2 basic bolt action rifles for me to give as gifts.
p.s. 3 Live in Dallas and 3 live in Houston.
Thanks,

You're a great Grandpa :-)

I got my 2 Granddaughter's AR 223's.

Great idea. My son shoots an M1 Carbine that was once used by the Thai Border Police. It is accurate, within usable range, and has virtually no recoil.

The M1 Carbine was designed around David Marshall "Carbine" Williams' patented short-stroke gas piston design. The short-stroke piston weighed less and was smaller than other auto-loading mechanisms of the day. That design kept the M1 Carbine short and light. It's only 35-1/2" long and weighs a bit over 5 pounds.

Based on my estimations, factory 110 grain ammo would get an additional 30 fps from a 20" barrel, @ ~ 2020 fps, and an additional 55 fps from a 22" barrel, @ ~2045 fps. When it comes to handloading, the bolt action rifle would be able to handle bullets that M1 cannot. For example, you should be able to get 1850 fps in a 22" barreled rifle shooting Sierra 125 gr softpoints. You could do even more if you had a rifle with a .223 length magazine.

Read the readin' He's inquiring about a BOLT action. Might not be an easy order, thinking some action in the CZ line up would work?

I sure didn't start my kids/grandkids out on some semi auto...Single shots,. then bolt repeaters, lever, finally semi autos. No....he's on the right track..make every shot count, jumping straight to semi auto is a big mistake

I agree, single shots are the first step, at least in .22LR. But after that the jump to a bolt action centerfire becomes difficult for a small child if the stock is too long, the rifle too heavy, and the recoil puts them off. An M1 Carbine or an AR with a collapsible stock work great. When I got my youngest son going that way I loaded the magazines with only one round for a while, then went to three, and more only later. He doesn't blast away. He aims each shot.

As for small, light bolt rifles with little recoil I think the .30 Carbine would be just as good a choice as a .223, better in some ways. Making it happen, well, that's another thing.

But things can be done:

CZ 527, 30 Carbine, W/Rings, 1 magazine, 16" Fluted Barrel

From memory, the 30 Carbine has basically the same rim diameter as a 22 Hornet, so theoretically you could use an old Hornet.....I always wanted to make one of these myself (could never find a cheap donor rifle ) on say, a 340 Savage action, modified to take M1 mags.
Care would need to be taken with the chamber reaming , as the Carbine headspaces on the case mouth

Roger

All the girls are already shooting 22 rimfire.
I have a bucket load of 30 carbine ammo, so that's what I want to start them with.
At some future time, they will migrate to a significantly better game getting cartridge.

James Calhoon builds his 19 Calhoon using CZ actions. The 19 is the 30 Carbine necked down.

Grenadier, who built yours ?

Just to see the feasibility of it I partly cycled some 30 carbine in my CZ 527 in 223.
of course the magazine was much too long but the carbine rounds wanted to feed.
they extracted fine. I think such a conversion is possible. I would rather than go
all the trouble AND expense just get 527 in 7.62x39 and put a really top of the line
recoil pad on it. I do rebarrel the 527 even though the threads are metric.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
James Calhoon builds his 19 Calhoon using CZ actions. The 19 is the 30 Carbine necked down.

Grenadier, who built yours ?

That's not mine. That's one of two or three CZ built! They are probably just a modification of the .22 Hornet rifles. The .22 Hornet has the same rim diameter and is just a hair longer overall than the .30 Carbine.

7.62x39 is a better round for an adult but it would kick a lot more in a 5-6 pound rifle than the .30 carbine. The .30 Carbine ammo is really inexpensive.

But if it were me, I'd just get the girls a couple of M1 Carbines. They already like shooting them and you wouldn't have to get a couple of rifles custom built. The new Inland company is making accurate reproductions. They also offer a model with a rail on the upper handguard for use with optical sights. There is an NRA review here: https://www.americanrifleman.o...oduction-m1-carbine/

If you want to stay with a .308 bore, 300 Blackout ammo is readily available and can be built on any rifle with a .223 Rem (.373") boltface. Uses the same magazine length. The balistics are nearly the same as a .30 carbine and if you handload the options for light plinking and hunting loads is nearly endless.

What a needle in a haystack find by Grenadier since this was one of just two built on special order. I bet an importer would be willing to get with CZ for another special order of 6 or even a couple if that's what you were thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

CZ 527, 30 Carbine, W/Rings, 1 magazine, 16" Fluted Barrel

CZ-USA

quote:

As for small, light bolt rifles with little recoil I think the .30 Carbine would be just as good a choice as a .223, better in some ways. Making it happen, well, that's another thing.

I strongly disagree. Having had over a dozen deer on my place killed with one shot using 64 gr Winchester power point .223 round and many more hogs, why reinvent the wheel? Get them Tikka or Steyr .223s and make the stock fit.

Above round has more energy at 100 yds than .30 carbine has at muzzle. Additionally with 100 yd zero, at 200 yds .223 drops 3.6 inches, 30 carbine 13.5 inches. Not even close and I've had 6 yr olds shooting a .223 (with ear protection) for fun.

Finally when they transition to larger calibers, they will still have a useful rifle for plinking or varmints, regardless of number of legs, with cheap commonly available ammo.

Wounding and losing a game animal is just about the quickest way to turn a kid off of hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by gzig5:
If you want to stay with a .308 bore, 300 Blackout ammo is readily available and can be built on any rifle with a .223 Rem (.373") boltface. Uses the same magazine length. The balistics are nearly the same as a .30 carbine and if you handload the options for light plinking and hunting loads is nearly endless.

+1 on that advice. Great little round that gives a lot more flexibility than the 30 carbine. However, I have a couple other options to consider. First is a CZ 527 Youth carbine in 7.62x 39. It's basically a 30-30, performance wise, and can be loaded down (more on that in a minute). The 527 Youth carbine also comes in 223, and their website states it handles 5.56 ammo just fine. This would be a fine option, or you could buy a couple of these and have them rebarreled to 300 Backout.


As for loading down the 7.62x39, follow these instruction from IMR using Trailboss. You can easily make some fun plinking loads, and the girls can take any whitetail in Texas later on, if they so choose, with standard hunting loads. Don't know how old these girls are, but 7.62x39 doesn't kick real hard, and steel case wolf ammo is about as cheap a plinking round as one can find. These 7.62x39 guns can be rebarreled to 6.5 Grendel, which kicks less, and wolf makes cheap plinking ammo for it as well.

Bob, Sometimes straight-line thinking is best as in the path of least resistance including the calibers recommended, in other words - the shortest distance between two points. I find myself in a similar situation as I am a big fan of the 7X57 Mauser round and many manufacturers only offer other 7's that won't ream out to 7X57.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Nisbet:
My 6 grand daughters are just getting into rifle shooting and all are small of stature.
They tried my military 30 carbine and ammo and love it, so I was thinking about buying starter rifles chambered in 30 carbine that they could use for pigs and target plinking.
PM me if you have an interest in making 2 basic bolt action rifles for me to give as gifts.
p.s. 3 Live in Dallas and 3 live in Houston.
Thanks,

To me the 30 is not a hunting round. Go buy a couple Ruger American Ranch in 300 Blackout. Restock them if you want. If they don't like hunting there is a larger market for the Blackout than 30. (my opinion)

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Nisbet:
My 6 grand daughters are just getting into rifle shooting and all are small of stature.
They tried my military 30 carbine and ammo and love it, so I was thinking about buying starter rifles chambered in 30 carbine that they could use for pigs and target plinking.
PM me if you have an interest in making 2 basic bolt action rifles for me to give as gifts.
p.s. 3 Live in Dallas and 3 live in Houston.
Thanks,

Bob,

Everyone seems to be arguing the metaphysics of shooting a deer. If you don't have someone to do your work, send me an email.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Nisbet:

I have a bucket load of 30 carbine ammo, so that's what I want to start them with.

Rings a bell. I too have spent thousands on guns over the years so I could shoot a few hundred dollars of cheap surplus ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Wounding and losing a game animal is just about the quickest way to turn a kid off of hunting.

Only if the mentor makes too big a deal out of it.

Wounding and losing game is always a possibility. Explained properly the new hunter shouldn't be effected to badly.

I don't know a bird hunter that hasn't had bird fly off after being hit.

Every beginning hunter should be told to make and only take the best shot. But stuff happens.

I have a great amount of 30 Carbine ammo, 2,000 rounds. Normally my only excuse to build a rifle. Fortunately a friend gave me a pretty nice Springfield Carbine.

Bob, When I built my grandkids rifles, I based them on the AR platform. One advantage of this is that I used the 6 position buttstock so that the guns would fit them as they grew. Then I gave their dad 2,500 rounds of M193 ammo and a bunch of magazines. Their dad can give them a magazine with one to 20 rounds as he sees fit. It's a part of their training. You would not be disappointed with the .30BKK. It's a hoot to shoot and has a lot of potential. Just some thoughts.