You want some custom work done. You know who you want to do the work because you have seen this work before and know how good it is.

But that person is unavailable to do the work (for good reason)

Can we agree that custom gunmakers are artists, meaning they incorporate their own artistic ideas into their work.

The dilemma then being whether to inquire of other makers whether they will do the work in the style of the maker who is unavailable, or just wait it out until the preferred maker becomes available.

Or, to put it another way, is it an insult to a gun artist to be asked to copy the work of another artist?

If you really like a certain persons work, I would wait them out.

Copy work? That is impossible unless it is art, so unique that it has been copywrited. Good workmanship is universal.
Answer; depends on how long you want to wait for it.

Simple, I have turned down work simply because I did not agree with the client's style. Anyone?

“Style” is a pretty broad term. Can you be more specific?

"Style" is a pretty broad subject. If we were talking flintlock rifles I can see "style" as being the design of patchboxes and relief carving as well as shape on gunstocks. Todays more modern gunstocks are, generally speaking, pretty similar to each other in style. There are variances in checkering as well as stock shape, but I see styles as less significant in todays firearms than antique guns. There just aren't enough variances in checkering for instance, to say that this design belongs to a single individual. An exception could be if a builder uses the same pattern over and over again you can identify his work by this pattern, but it could also be a copy of another pattern. So I don't think I'd have a problem asking a gunmaker to use a certain design if that's what I wanted and you both agree.

that's like saying all beer tastes the same

Maybe he's looking for a thumbhole.

Let me see how to phrase this carefully. It depends very much on WHO the artists(Gunmakers) are in your situation.

I have had enough conversations with Stockmakers to say that many of them respect each others work. I won't throw out names, but many of them respect each other enough to work together on projects and bounce creative ideas back and forth. In that situation you would be ok

Then there are others who's work makes you wonder how they can even keep a customer base. They wouldn't be able to copy another Stockmakers style due to inferior skill or failure to follow your directions.

A general piece of advise....the Stockmaker who is booked up for a while is USUALLY worth a wait. The Stockmakers that can start on your project tomorrow USUALLY has no wait time or work to do for a reason.

From my standpoint...It is usually the stock that has a particular makers signature. I do not make two stocks exactly alike except in cases of matched pairs.

Sooo...I could never embrace the concept of a duplicator and call it a one off custom..Don't get me wrong...stock duplicators machines have their place., but a 223 stock must realistically have a different set of parameters than a 500 Jeff.

"Style"...lets forget that and move on to accommodation. I'm making a couple rifles just now that the clients need a more vertical grip that is my usual signature.

What to do? Well...ponder his required dimensions and see if I'm OK with the visual of the end result ...If so....done deal!

The key is accommodation and if the maker just can't do that,he must be up front and say so...

I remember a damn famous maker that said" The ability to wait is as important as the ability to pay.

I think you can ask and a gunmaker can decide. No insult no offense taken. Why make it difficult.

quote:

I remember a damn famous maker that said" The ability to wait is as important as the ability to pay.

Now I've got to remember that!

My 2 schillingi.

If I was building a rifle ( am working on a 416 on a m70) and I didn't really care who's name was on it this is what I would do.

Send the action to Chad Dixon at Long Rifles Inc in Sturgis SD. Have him do 99% of the metal work on his CNC. He has most of the programs worked out and he is quick and reasonably priced.

If you want a wood stock, you'd have to figure that out on your own.

If you want a fiberglass stock, I'd order one from McMillan or whoever you like and know it will be 7-14 months before you see it.

Chad could bed everything (he'll actually bed it then machine it to make sure it is clean) not cheap!

If you want sights, quarter ribs, dropped metal and everything else you need to have it in the box when you send it.

I can't seem to get anyone at Swift Bullets to answer the phone, or I'd order my bottom metal for my 416.

Maybe Smithson or Echols could weigh in, but that is who I would pick for mounts. I can't afford one of their rifles anyway, but I'd sure like to use their mounts.

Me being a thumbhole guy, I'd fit the stock to the action before the work was done some cheap mounts and keep messing with a dowel bored out for a eye alignment and then let Monsiur's Smithson and Echols know what I needed the scope center to be.

Wouldn't want to offend anyone by sending them on of Harry Lawson's McMillan Lazzeroni thumbholes for someone like that to fit..

When you get everything back send it to someone good for bluing, parkerizing, or PTFE and hunt with it.

I hunt with Blaser's so a thumbhole stocked 416 is the kind of hermaphrodite trannie stuff I am into.

I have the stock and barrel ordered on mine, action is sitting here as a 338, and I am using it that way.

I hunt with Blaser's so a thumbhole stocked 416 is the kind of hermaphrodite trannie stuff I am into.

Yes sir, your post says it all.

Butch,

All I am saying is that people get really hung up on having some name smith do it, and most guys can do a decent job on a fiberglass stocked rifle.

If you are into wood it gets harder, if you want a California monte carlo and you are asking someone who only builds American classic stocked rifles for that work it is a harder animal still.

As the great Clint Eastwood movie quote goes " a man has got to know his limitations".

I'd rather have a rifle that shoots and be done with it. Then wait 2-3 or 5 years for the pinnacle of quality.

Pursuit of the best does not interest me in the slightest. 80% solution is just fine.

Not everyone is that way. You want quality and have the time and $15,000 plus to put into it call Wiebe, Echols, Satterlee, Smithson, Ramirez, and another 8 or 10 guys that are at the top of the ball game.

And for what's it worth if I had $50,000,000 in the bank I'd still be shooting Blasers and thumbhole rifles.

They work for me, they would probably have nicer wood though.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
And for what's it worth if I had $50,000,000 in the bank I'd still be shooting Blasers and thumbhole rifles.

They work for me, they would probably have nicer wood though.

To each his own young feller. A Blaser with a thumb hole stock, that would be unique.

https://www.blaser.de/en/produ...rofessional-success/

Been around for about 7-8 years.






Newest model

Well Kolo-Pan, are you going to circle back and share the style you are after? You might get better some answers if you do.
Thumbhole, modern classic, or???

Its not the stock I care about. Its the metalwork. No "style" really. Just certain things certain ways.

quote:

Originally posted by Kolo-Pan:
Its not the stock I care about. Its the metalwork. No "style" really. Just certain things certain ways.

Ok, well...gold inlays and metal engraving are absolutely, most definitely, Art. If that’s what you are after. (Albeit there are some standard motifs that are often duplicated: oak leaves, scrolls, etc.)

You could also make a minor arguement for touches like bolt knob checkering, a certain type of quarter rib, or the way the transition from a round bolt handle to the square root is shaped as being art.

Otherwise though I cannot think of any particular “style” for metal that would count as art. At least not anything like machining or finishing that hasn't been done already by many others...

I dont suppose you care to enlighten us and go into any greater detail than that? You asked a good question to a willing audience, but you aren’t giving enough detail or even vague examples for anyone to provide a solid answer.

And as a result, some folks are assuming you might want a Blaser with a thumb hole stock...

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

That wood stocked blaser above has some $#!tty grain flow through the buttstock. A complete MORON had to lay out the stock and machine it. I don't know how someone that builds guns for a living would do that. It almost wants to break just looking at it. However the guy that machined it could have had reservations about the layout and been overridden by an idiot in charge. That's been known to happen in the firearms industry.

And then they use pics of the incompetence for advertising.

I have to wonder if Blaser has a reinforcement of some kind in those thumbhole stocks.

They could have just flipped the front to back and had much better layout through the thin spots. Absolutely beautiful piece of wood, just not suited for that layout on that rifle.

I might be a little pickier than most when it comes to layout, but I "stamp" my name on the project when it's done. I'm also not shy about steering a client to using another blank that lays out better or has more balanced color.

I checked out the configuration page at Blaser and the stock shown on the thumb hole has much better grain flow for that design of stock. They also offer it in:
338 Lapua
8X68S
7, 300, 338, &375 Blaser Mag
375 H&H
10.3x68 Magnum
etc..

Would you want to pull the trigger on the stock above in 338 Lapua? I wouldn't.

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
I have to wonder if Blaser has a reinforcement of some kind in those thumbhole stocks.

the wood ones don’t

the synthetic ones made of a fiberglass and kevlar mix have a stainless steel rod thru it.

tells me everything - buy the synthetic stock.

I love the blaser success stock - it is the best stock design out there.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
They could have just flipped the front to back and had much better layout through the thin spots. Absolutely beautiful piece of wood, just not suited for that layout on that rifle.

I might be a little pickier than most when it comes to layout, but I "stamp" my name on the project when it's done. I'm also not shy about steering a client to using another blank that lays out better or has more balanced color.

I checked out the configuration page at Blaser and the stock shown on the thumb hole has much better grain flow for that design of stock. They also offer it in:
338 Lapua
8X68S
7, 300, 338, &375 Blaser Mag
375 H&H
10.3x68 Magnum
etc..

Would you want to pull the trigger on the stock above in 338 Lapua? I wouldn't.

99% of those will be shot in 308, 30-06, 9.3x62, 7x64 or maybe in America 7mm Rem or 300 Win......hopefully.

I have 3 R8 stocks, and none of them are thumbholes 2 regular green professionals and a safari professional.

My love of thumbholes follows the McMillan Lazzeroni (designed by Lawson) and a Lawson French walnut thumbhole here at the house on a Mauser.

I've had a thumbhole pattern since 1994 and never used it. Flat top, no inlet. I ordered it from Ed Shulin my stockmaking instructor from Trinidad. He used to make patterns for several in the trade. So many thumbholes I see look just like the pattern he made from scratch. It would be interesting to know how many stocks had Ed's influence as he machined around 500 stocks a year on his Don Allen machine. When I was in school Ed was contracted by colt to build a thumbhole stock for the AR-15. This was before the AW Ban. I'm sure Colt smelled it coming and had inside knowledge.

Maybe I should dust off my t-hole pattern and throw my Howa 223 in it just for fun.

I still wouldn't want to shoot that stock above in 30/06.

GASP!

James,

I have shot Harry Lawson built thumbholes in a variety of calibers but nothing over 338.

The worst one was inletted to a 700, it had a different shape to it.

The McMillan Lazzeroni thumbhole version of his stock I'd shoot on a 460 Weatherby without a brake. It is a good design for big kickers.

Mine is very light, I doubt it would survive much of 9.3x62 or so.