I have a nice rifle built by Lon Paul (I am not the person that commissioned the build) that happens to have double set triggers installed. The action is a commercial Oberndorf action and the chambering is a dangerous game caliber . . . begging the question of why the original owner wanted a double set trigger in the first place.

The problem is that the double set trigger has a front trigger pull that is way too heavy to be functional (~10 pounds) while the set trigger has a trigger pull that is way too light to be functional (< 1 pound). I have been able to use the adjustment screw to change the set trigger poundage to a bit over a pound but that is about as much adjustment as I can get. I have spoken to one gunsmith/maker who indicated that decreasing the poundage of the front trigger is really not an option given the mechanics of a double set trigger. That has me wondering if perhaps replacing the double set trigger with a single stage trigger would be an option (although the trigger bow will be oversized given it was for a double set trigger set up). Just looking for ideas. It is a beautiful gun and shoots very well but would like the trigger arrangement to be more functional. Thanks.

Because DSTs are traditional German hunting rifle triggers; taken from the flintlock era, they didn't have a viable single trigger. However, DSTs on a hunter are a dumb idea and will only cause confusion. I heard of a guy missing a deer because the DST was set so light that just a touch make it go off over the back. That was me.
Oh, your gunsmith is totally wrong. DSTs can be set to half an ounce but that is not the point.
So, unless you are totally practiced on the pitfalls of them, replace them. You either forget to set them, (never carry them set), or you have a super long and light pull. I never install them on hunting rifles, even with the customer wants. Now, Recknagel does make a single set which is better if you have to have one.
But you don't.

I have the same findings hunting with a 8x60mm of mine. Front trigger is too heavy to be practical, and set trigger is too ligh to be practical for hunting. I actually had a close call this season in a doe at 10yds, if she had been further I’m sure it would have been a miss or bad shot.

while i love double sets on a varminter i have no use for them on heavy rifles - that said i bought a 460 weatherby some years back and it camce with a canjar single set trigger - go figure that one out

Am I overthinking the issues mechanically and/or aesthetically in just swapping the trigger out for a single stage trigger? I cannot imagine why someone would put a double set trigger on a dangerous game rifle, but I am sure that Lon was just doing what the customer asked.

Mike, The DST is kind of fun/nifty for a while but, yes, it is an impractical gadget on a DG rifle.

dpcd is right as usual. The weights of both the set and unset pulls can be adjusted and stoned to what ever you want. ie. 6# and 2#.

One option, obviously would be to have the front trigger stoned or set to what you want and then never use the set trigger.
Also, I think the "set" feature can just be eliminated/disconnected by a gunsmith instead of swapping it out. (dpcd would would have an educated comment on that.)

Brian

Mike:

1. Turning a double trigger to a single requires machining of the DT bottom metal if you intend to use an aftermarket trigger like a Timney or Recknagle, etc. The metal is too thick to clear the trigger body.
2. Perhaps a standard military 98 trigger would be a viable (no machining necessary) option if gunsmith modified in a way where a set screw is added to take up the typical slack.
3. My single trigger deer rifles all range between 1.75 and 2 pounds pull. A 1.25 pull or whatever the set is on yours can be gotten used to just by shooting a few dozen target rounds. Think of the set trigger system as an extra safety.

Call Lon

Double-set triggers on any heavy recoiling rifle is a mistake. Any professional gunsmith that installed them would be doing his client a disservice. IMO.

I like the DST on my 1903 M/S, but that is classic + useful. I had a 22-250 AI a few years ago with a
Keplinger set trigger from Brownell's. but that was a completely different story. That was not a DST, only forward pressure on the trigger set it.

Mike... I agree with Phil on this one. Give Lon a call, a nicer guy you will be hard pressed to find. I bought a rifle from Hallowell's he built and I gave him a call to talk about it, an hour later I had not only the particulars on the rifle but also an invitation to call him if the rifle ever had issues. A true gentleman.

BTW, was it the 10.75 that Barnett has had for awhile? I remember that rifle had DST's.

You can certainly easily elliminate the 'set' trigger function in a DST. Just remove the set trigger.
The front trigger in a double lever unit is made to be able to fire the rifle as well and this then would be the only way available. The problem is that the leverage given the front trigger in a DST assembly is less than favorable and that is why most of them have a long heavy trigger pull using the front.
You are also still using the 'kicker' sear which was needed with the D/Set function.

For a DGR, take the DST unit out, put a standard sear in, and replace the trigger with a standard plain military Mauser 2 stage trigger.
The trigger guard will probably have to be replaced or modified because of the DST unit.

Safe, reliable and always goes bang when you want it to. Doesn't when you don't want it to.

That’s the rifle Russ. There are also pictures of it on Lon’s website. I will give Lon a call. He and I have had several long conversations in the past about rifles, custom builds and changing attitudes on rifles. Suffice it to say that he and I share a common view of what a “proper” custom build should look like. He is a credit to his profession. Frankly I just did not want to bother him regarding this issue. As I said, the rifle is an amazing piece of craftsmanship and extremely accurate. Proud to own it.

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
Double-set triggers on any heavy recoiling rifle is a mistake. Any professional gunsmith that installed them would be doing his client a disservice. IMO.

Steve, Lon restocked an original Mauser that had the set triggers. So if anyone is at fault it would be Mauser.

I have be3n. Thinking on this one and think that it i5 a big mistake on a double rifle for DG. Too many things can get mixed up when the shit is about to go down. A double discharge, an accidentally set set trigger or who knows what.. I am not even too sure Inwould wan5none on a double used for non DG. Just my opinion.

. . . Lon and I have a plan. Going to replace the DST with a commercial single stage trigger with some related modifications to ensure the conversion looks consistent with the overall quality of the build.

I like to hunt with my original Oberndorf Mauser sporters, my Newton rifles and my Mannlicher-Schoenauers, all of which are equipped with double set triggers. The biggest drawback I have found, and it has only happened once, off the bench, is to absent mindedly forget that the rifle I am shooting at the time does not have a DST and try to set it. The noise can be a wake up call.

I like my Mauser 77, too, with its single set trigger, and some of my German combination guns which are also so equipped.

xusa..reminds me of a prairie
chicken hunt with a friend that shot trap with a release trigger. About the second time she lit off a round accidentally, figured it was time to shut it down, maybe have a few beers instead!

Have hunted with set triggers for years and frankly I just don't see the issue. I guess Sauer is right when they say that they are afraid of the liability of offering a set trigger on their guns in the US. Nothing better on game at distance...cock the second trigger...assume the same ready position you do with your 9mm ... fix the cross hairs and touch the front trigger.

Here is my single set trigger which I made in 1961 during the Xmas break at TSJC. This was made using part of the original mauser trigger system and it worked very well on my 243 Pd rifle. It has a regular pull of about 3 lbs and the set is about 1 lb. The rifle was sold and about 30 yrs later it came back into the shop. I offered the person a new Timney and he let me have this trigger back to keep. It is still in my collection now.

This was a hack saw and file project and the only one made on my apartment work bench.

Just thought I would share this as you will not see another one like it.

I like doublel set triggers on running shots at deer and antelope etc. and only in open country, but not on a DG rifle, they have no place there...Have Lon take them out and replace with a std trigger of some type, Timney is fine on a DGR,or whatever suits you. Ive even had modified Mauser milsurp triggers that worked great..For DG a crisp 3 to 4 lb. is best, its easy to trip a light trigger in a risky situation..Personally I like a CLEAN BREAKING 4# TRIGGER ON A BIG BORE....

I would definitely replace the DST with a single stage trigger.

Any kind of set trigger on a DGR is a no-go proposition.

Never understood why CZ put them on big bores.

I do like them on my 8mm Mausers and 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauers.

But not on big bores.

Mike... back from Botswana and catching up. Glad you snagged that rifle, it tempted me over the years as the price on it came down. Unfortunately, unlike you I am not a hand-loader so the caliber kept me from pulling the trigger. The previous owner who had this rifle built also built the 9.3x64 I purchased. Great fitting and accurate rifle as well. Look forward to seeing that baby close up!

Hi Russ. Lon said that he always felt that two things worked to depress the market value of the rifle, the caliber and the double set trigger. I already have a Type A Mauser in 10.75x68 so I have all the brass, bullets, dies, etc. Lon is going to replace the double set trigger with a single stage trigger and also replace the Buehler-style flip safety with a 3-position swing safety. At that point the rifle should be ready for buffalo. It is very accurate and should shoot really well once it has a trigger that is more useable and not too hard or too light. It is one of three rifles that I went and got 4457's for in anticipation of October. Trying to decide between it, a .375 H&H built by Griffin and Howe or the Wiebe .404 Jeffery that you are already intimately familiar with. Mulling over rifle choices and other trip-planning options is always part of the fun of getting ready for a trip.

. . . of course, in the process of talking to Lon about the fixes on the 10.75x68, I ended up asking him to build a 6.5x55 on a G33/40 action I had, stocked in a beautiful blank I got from Cecil Fredi.

Temptations, temptations! I am sure it will be a magnificent piece when finished. Like you Lon, Duane, Ralf and Reto are all artisans I really appreciate in both the form and function category!

I have single set triggers on two of my rifles. But the primary pulls on both are good. One is a Heym SR20, the other is a Ferlach combination gun. I sometimes use them, but I actually prefer a 3 to 4lb pull as it allows you to squeeze the rifle as you bring the rifle to point of aim thus controlling the recoil.

With a light trigger, a firm squeeze hold is all but impossible.

If you look at the continental style of hunting, its mostly from high seats, and they shot with a much lighter grip, head up style hence the use of a set trigger to not disturb the rifle as its fired - the rifle being lightly held. Once you understand this style of shooting, set triggers make perfect sense.

But the British / American style comes from heavy draggy two stage military style triggers - think lee Enfield with emphasis on a firm grip with both hands and a steady squeeze through with trigger breaking almost by accident.

quote:

However, DSTs on a hunter are a dumb idea and will only cause confusion. I heard of a guy missing a deer because the DST was set so light that just a touch make it go off over the back. That was me

This ^^

Have one on a German 22 hornet nice off the bench but in the field never used it.

double sets are great on running shots at deer and antelope, swing passed the animal and ouch one off, it just flat works, other than that they are worthless..well perhaps on varments and targets?? They are fun to shoot, and not all bad on an old custom mauser like Brno mod 21 or 22.Just depends..

From a stand, with plenty of time, a solid rest, and with full knowledge, appreciation and understanding of what will happen when it is touched - a DST is a death ray.

That is the opposite of what happens during almost all DG hunting.

I hated some guns (I know that’s sacrilege) and had my gun jockey take them to a show. I think I traded a beat up Python for a Steyr Pro of something like that in .270 with Zeiss glass.

I gifted it to my father. He loves light trigger pulls (2 lbs) , but he missed and said it was too dangerous.

There is that Sako system where you can decide with a single trigger. I was checking them out at Beretta Gallery and was intrigued. I believe you can pull it regularly for a normal pull, but if you push the trigger forward it will then set to the super light pull.

Once again, that’s too much to think about with dangerous game. I’ve not hunted DG in Africa, but hope to at some point. I don’t want to think about that stuff.

I bird hunt in the US with a little W&C Scott 28 with double triggers. I may have pulled the front twice a time or two early on, but that damn dove or quail bird wasn’t going to kill me.

A good SINGLE SET trigger is awesome on any gun, but I not sure they even exist anymore..

I would not own a double rifle without double triggers, end of story..nor a shotgun for that matter, and always pull the back trigger first on a big bore double...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
A good SINGLE SET trigger is awesome on any gun, but I not sure they even exist anymore..

The likes of Sako and Heym still offer them on many of their rifles. Recknagel still make a single set trigger which can be fitted like a Timney etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
A good SINGLE SET trigger is awesome on any gun..

+1

the only problem with double set triggers is folks condeming them who I doubt ever really learned to shoot them, I like them under "some" circumstances and never found them a problem if properly set other than the front triggers pull hard when not properly set up...I had to learn to shoot them and like I said a running broad side shot is duck soup with that 1.5Lb touch. Just saying they have a place in the schame of things and my muzzle loaders all have them.

So, if a rifle has DST can those be removed and a single trigger be installed and still use the same BM?

Yep..pleny of room...but don't look so good. A ncely machined, filtted plug would be the classy way to do it

Ya know...there's likely an existng "plug in the bottom metal now...Mayhaps remodeling the plug can prodcuce satisfactory results

Any chance you might have a pic of what you're referring to, Duane?

Anytime I have used a double set in a hunting situation the rifle fired before I wanted it to. I love the idea but it requires that one use it exclusively to become proficient.