Gentlemen,

My company acquired the Miller Single Trigger Company in 2010. We purchased it mainly for shotgun work and never intended to investigate Miller's rifle set trigger very deeply. We have of late been researching and developing the single set Miller trigger in a Mauser action and are quite intrigued with it. We are seriously considering producing and installing this trigger again - this would be the first time it has been available in around 40 years.

I am hoping to get some feedback as to whether there would be any commercial interest in this trigger.

Thank you for your time.

Dan May
The Miller Single Trigger Company

quote:

Originally posted by Dan May:
I am hoping to get some feedback as to whether there would be any commercial interest in this trigger.

Thank you for your time.

Dan May
The Miller Single Trigger Company

Absolutley we are interested. do you have any photos you can post?

Doug,

Thanks for the reply - no photos right at this moment but we can certainly work on that. I'm also hoping that someone may chime in that has seen and/or used the Miller trigger and get their opinion on it. I spoke with a gentleman a while back who has one in a Mauser action and he is delighted with it and was disappointed to find out that we weren't offering new installations.

I can tell you that the un-set let-off is much like the two-stage trigger but a little smoother with no discernible second stage. The set let-off is wonderful, very crisp with no over-travel. The one we have installed in our test action is not adjustable for weight, it is set at installation with no further fiddling necessary or available.

Best, Dan

dang right - especially if you'd figure out one for ruger #1's

YES!, that would be some kind of wonderful.

perfect would be 5-8oz set, and 3lbs unset.

And under $200.oo

Rich

Definitely interested.

I'm interested. I like the single-set triggers on the CZ's.

Any idea of the target price?

Steve

Thanks for all of the feedback so far. As far as price point is concerned we would like to at least be competitive with the Kepplinger. We also have not decided if we are going to be willing to sell the unit as a DIY installation or only to be installed by us. Will have to do some more research. Hopefully I'll have some pictures and more info this week.

Any opinions out there on the Kepplinger?

Best, Dan

Dan, first a little background. I've used various kinds of set triggers for a long, long time in big game hunting, predator hunting, varmint shooting and target competitions. Have shot literally thousands upon thousands of rounds in bench-rest tests for comparative set trigger accuracy and am currently engaged on a project to measure comparative lock times using various setups including parts fabbed of Ti. So you can see I like set triggers (grin).

I've owned and used several of the Kepplinger single-set triggers as well as other SSTs by Canjar, Remington, Winchester and others. Also have owned the Jewell over-center benchrest trigger with its 2-stage pull, is your design similar?

Long story short I like the Winchester/Canjar triggers but don't particularly like the Remington or Kepplinger ones. The Jewell, for me, is suitable only for benchrest unless the springs are replaced with stronger ones.

The Kepplinger IMO would be greatly improved by the addition of adjustments on the spring tensions. I've had issues with this on both Mauser and Ruger Kepplinger SSTs BTW.

IMO the Kepplinger is the best choice available today in an affordable price range, and I use a reworked one on my current 'road-ready' plains rifle. (gave my last hoarded Canjar to a friend)

IMO Canjar made what was, by far, the finest SST setup I've ever seen outside a custom self-setting Ballard conversion. The Canjar and Winchester designs are similar to one another and IMO are better & longer-lasting than the other designs because of their sear angles, but neither are made today.

IMO Kepplinger is your competition here and there is DEFINITELY room for you to blow 'em out of the US market if you plan properly and have good QC!
Regards, Joe

Just some thoughts -

I would love to have several of them, particularly for Mausers and for Ruger No.s 1 & 3.

The caution I would give immediately, is that you might want to think over very carefully which actions you would make them for...trying to cover the rifle market might not be economically viable.

I also would not be personally willing to ship a rifle to New York to get a trigger installed. Perhaps you could consider regional franchise agreements with licensed gunsmiths of good repute, and require them to show periodic proof of "hold harmless" insurance to you to keep their franchises. That may not be the correct wording, but I suspect you understand what I am talking about.

Kepplingers are not famous for being particularly easy to install, so it would be great if you could come up with an easily home-installed set trigger for Rugers, even it wasn't adjustable.

Alberta - Good advice. Liability and safety are definitely foremost in our minds as we investigate this whole venture.

J.D. - Can't say on the Jewell benchrest trigger, I'm not familiar with it. It seems to me in my study so far that the Miller system is quite different from other designs. It is relatively simple and robust with few parts to get out of order. It is fairly difficult to describe but it basically consists of three major parts - a "hammer", latch and the trigger itself. In the unset position the "hammer" actuates the sear on the long pull and when set for light pull, a spring drives the hammer to actuate the sear with a light pull. In my admittedly brief study of other trigger patents, I have not seen anything close to it yet.

Thanks for listening and for the feedback.

Dan

Dan, the Jewell is an over-center design inspired by the folding retractable nose gear of a tricycle-gear RG aircraft. I didn't have good results with mine in field use.

Your design sounds similar to the Canjar/Winchester one, I look forward to seeing more!

BTW I see on another site that you'll be investigating the Kepplinger design. I have a new unused Mauser Kepplinger SST that I'll be happy to lend you if you wish. Might save you a little time and a few bucks, just say the word.
Regards, Joe

Joe,

You bet, I'm encouraged by the interest so far. My knowledge base centers around doubleguns but I'm fairly mechanical and have some great minds working with me on the project that know their way around bolt guns.

That is a kind offer on the Kepplinger and I'll accept on the understanding that it obviously won't be a "new" trigger anymore after we install it and fiddle with it! You can get our address at either of these two websites:

www.classicgunstocks.com
www.millersingletrigger.com

Thanks and best regards, Dan

The Kepplinger eats up a lot of wood while inletting. Perhaps a odd reason to not like a trigger. I just like more wood ahead of the trigger.

I've used both keplinger and jewell on remingtons and the kepplinger on Winchester. They are all very good triggers but certainly not perfect. I got to "feel" a canjar but never got to inspect it. I would certainly be interested in more options of triggers. I found that the Keplinger on winchesters has certain limitations. More options are better. As others have said, a Ruger #1 would be great but i do realize there is limited market for such things and they are often not feasible or are incredibly expensive.

hijack in progress! As an aside, Wayne Schwartz of the UP figured out a way to put double set triggers in a #1 and make them work. He competed very well for many years in Schuetzen with his, including a 22lr conversion.

Rich

Stay tuned - we are working with the Mauser and have discovered we also may have the makings of a Model 70 prototype.

Will report back,

Dan

Love this site! Did not even know Dan's company existed, yet only live ~10 miles away.

If you need any help testing them, let me know

Seriously, would be happy to help in any way I can.

Finally finished installing the Mauser version. I don't think we would ever feel comfortable selling this trigger as a drop-in, due to liability and quality control issues. There are tweaks that need to be done in the process that are beyond most folks capabilities at home. I'm thinking we would fall in the $350 - $500 price range - installed. Which is more than most of the competition, but.....I am amazed by the trigger - it is incredible and like nothing else out there! I am confident enough in the quality and distinctiveness of the trigger to press on. At this point - I need to physically compare it to the competition - Kepplinger, et al. Thanks for listening - will keep you posted.

Dan

Dan, sorry for the delay, I mailed the Kepplinger Mauser SST to you today. Good luck with your analysis of its internals and don't worry too much about any FUBARs that might occur to it.

Might be productive for you to cast a line out to the folks over on the doublegunshop.com site, they have a classic single-barrel rifle forum as well as the double-gun ones. An SST version for the 1903 Springfield would be ESPECIALLY interesting to those folks!
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Dan May:
Finally finished installing the Mauser version. I don't think we would ever feel comfortable selling this trigger as a drop-in, due to liability and quality control issues. There are tweaks that need to be done in the process that are beyond most folks capabilities at home. I'm thinking we would fall in the $350 - $500 price range - installed. Which is more than most of the competition, but.....I am amazed by the trigger - it is incredible and like nothing else out there! I am confident enough in the quality and distinctiveness of the trigger to press on. At this point - I need to physically compare it to the competition - Kepplinger, et al. Thanks for listening - will keep you posted.

Dan

Dan,

I certainly think it is great that you are considering moving into this market. However, at $350-$500 installed and not giving the option to install it myself you have priced it out of the range of most of my customers (and myself).

Just... a consideration, I could possibly not be a part of your target market.

Joe: Thank you so much - your timing is just right. We've got our trigger pretty well doped out and need to see how we compare. We also are very close to having the Model 70 version developed. I did post on doublegunshop a while back and received some feedback.

Nathaniel: Thanks for the comments. At this point (which is very early) don't take my pricing or "installed by us only" too much to heart. We are accomplished at installing single triggers in double shotguns but the rifle world is new territory and we're feeling our way along slowly. I very much appreciate the feedback.

I hope to have some photos up here in the next few weeks. Like I said in an earlier post, I think the Millers were really on to something with their design and I hope to be able to bring it to market and provide a top notch, world class SST option.

Best to all, Dan

We have inspected, installed and come to a conclusion on the other available triggers (Thanks, Joe). At the risk of sounding immodest, the Miller SST is in another universe regarding quality and design. The unit we have developed IS adjustable for weight of pull on the set and we have it down so low that we are having trouble measuring it. It works flawlessly and can be easily adjusted. We were not impressed with the quality of the other unit at all and like others suggested it requires the removal of quite a bit of wood where the Miller is much smaller. I think we have a real winner here and we are now working on what it will take to make it a DIY installation. We are looking into fabricating replacement sears which will allow for adjustment of the angles which make the trigger work. It is my hope that we can accomplish this in a way that makes self-installation easy and foolproof. From there we will figure production costs and hopefully come up with a number that works for everyone. Thanks again and please keep the feedback/ideas coming.

Dan

Dan, I'm glad to know you're getting such good results! Set triggers have always been a favorite of mine, most of my rifles have some sort of set mechanism.

One of the prime advantages of a Mauser as opposed to a Winchester M70 or a 1903 Springfield is the comparatively large size of the Mauser TG bow, especially the later post-WW1 98s. This longer TG bow opening allowed more room for the shooter's finger to operate things without any problems, whereas the shorter M70 and 1903 bows were actually too small for some set trigger placements. The early Mauser TG bows were shorter than the later 98s but not as short as the M70s and 1903s.

My point is that different applications will require different placements of the trigger finger piece depending upon the particular bow size and position. A finger piece that's placement-adjustable to some degree would be A VERY Good Thing since, for instance, there are 2 different Mauser TG bow sizes. Just a thought.

Will this design be a separate unit that attaches to the TG (like the DSTs) or will it attach directly to the receiver like the Kepplinger?

If you go into production, put me down for AT LEAST one of them regardless of what you come up with!
Regards, Joe

Dan,

After you field the Mauser trigger, please consider adapting your trigger for the Brno ZKK series of rifles.

I dont think there is any other available trigger assembly for these really nice Mauser- type rifles.

uwave,

I took a look at some pictures of the Brno ZKK, the only issue I see is the safety. The principles that make our trigger work so well also requires a bolt mounted safety. I bet we could adapt it to that rifle but a new shroud w/ safety would have to be fit.

Dan

Dan,
You might investigate how 1911 hammers are made today.
A lot of such parts can be manufactured by stacking blanks and cutting the profiles with wire EDM.

If you are unaware of the best manufacturing methods available today your trigger will have no market due to excessive cost. While you may feel confident over the product design, the manufacturing process design may be more important for your success. Don't plan on manufacturing the trigger yourself unless you have access to advanced facilities.

Look at what a wire EDM can do before you finalize your design or go into production.

Thanks for the advice! We have been involved with making a single trigger system for double shotguns for some time. The set trigger parts are only slightly more complicated to machine and we luckily have a relationship with a fantastic fabrication company (who also does work for the aerospace industry). We could probably have them made in China for $8 a piece but THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. It will be top quality, 100% American made or it won't happen.

Stay tuned and thanks for the feedback.

Dan

All,

A pre-production run of 10 units is underway (for Mauser 98 actions). We still have a lot of work to do but we have taken the plunge. I don't have a firm retail price yet but we are still planning on working through making at a DIY (gunsmith) installation. It won't be drop in and go but we will provide detailed instructions on what needs to happen to make it work.

Best regards, Dan

Joe,

I was just reading back through the thread and realized I never answered your question! Our trigger pins into the existing hole in the receiver exactly as the Kepplinger does.

Dan

Dan,

are all ten spoken for? If not, I would like to put my name in the hat for the drawing.

Rich

Rich,

Since you guys have been kind enough to freely give advice and listen to my ramblings, I'll happily take names to hold for the purchase of the first ten.

If you don't end up liking the final price, I won't hold you to it.

Email me at info@millersingletrigger.com with your contact info.

Best, Dan

I want one, at least one!

You knew I would(grin).
Regards, Joe

Joe,

You bet, you were already on the list! I sent you an email - hope it was the right address. Let me know.

Dan

I would be interested in a good Mauser trigger IF it was made in such a design that you didn't have to remove so much wood from the stock. An improved Dayton Traister, or Huber (Brownells) for instance, all of which could stand some changes. Wood removal in the trigger area of big bore rifles is something that does not need to be.

Ray,

The Miller SST is about half the size of the Kepplinger. I will get some comparative photos up soon.

Best, Dan

Yes, some pics of that nature (and maybe a price, if even ballpark in nature) might sway some of we fence sitters.

At last, here are some photos - the Miller in the set and normal position and a comparison with the Kepplinger.

I am trying very hard to keep the retail for the kit under $300. I think it will be worth every dime (but I'm biased)! Outside of production costs there will be hand labor going into each trigger to make it the best it can be and to assure safety.

The trigger pictured is not adjustable for set let-off, the production triggers will be.

Best, Dan

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

Hot damn!

Put me on the list too for a VZ24 Mauser 98!

Any Rem 700 trigger production in the very near future?

Norseman,

Shoot me an email at info@millersingletrigger.com with your contact info. I'll put you on the list for one of the first ten Mauser units.

No plans in the immediate future for the 700. We'll give it some thought though.

Thanks, Dan