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| One of Us |
Well, I'm sure many of you saw the regurgitated "news" about these triggers. After watching the re-enactments, not once did safe gun handling ever get mentioned...balanced news, I guess. | ||
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| one of us |
I had a Remington 721 go off with the safety once; fortunately it was pointed at soft ground at the time. It's not a comforting memory. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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One of Us |
I have 3 friends that had their Remington 700 fire when flipping off the safety. One in 270 Winchester and two in Remington 7mm Mag. One of the rifles(the 7mm)was brand new. He sent it back to Remington and they sent him a new gun. | |||
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| one of us |
Remington ?? My first example was my own 22 pistol .Not even loaded -dropped safety and heard a very LOUD CLICK ! Thereafter of course every gun I worked on was checked for that problem !  | |||
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| One of Us |
had a lot of remmys but none with trigger problems. wonder how many had the sear engagement fooled with | |||
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| One of Us |
^^^^ this Aim for the exit hole | |||
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| One of Us |
Me too. Or gunked up with wd40? . | |||
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| One of Us |
I have a reasonably open mind and am awaiting a copy of Belk's book, I was a Remington warranty station for a few years...1100's came in by the carload, but never had a reported 700 trigger problem. Some posts here had experience otherwise... On last nights 60 minutes, a man lost his son. His "mature" 15 yr old son got into a fight with his younger brother, loaded up his 700 "to scare him" Pointed the muzzle at the kid's head and God pulled the trigger. But..Oh yeah...that was Remington's fault! Maybe..just maybe I'd be in denial too..who knows? | |||
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| One of Us |
I agree. That story's truth could go either way. But there was one other story that was rather convincing. The gun went off in a living room, traveled across a street, struck one sister and then another. Unfortunately the second sister was hit directly in the heart and died. But even if that rifle had a faulty trigger I still have to wonder why the owner loaded the damn thing in his living room and pointed it out the window. It certainly leaves the issue of proximate cause to be considered. | |||
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| one of us |
After over forty years of general gunsmithing I saw a lot of Remington 700/721/722/600/660 trigger problems. Most customers reported the gun firing when disengaging the safety. I also taught Texas Hunters Ed a lot of years. Also State firearms/chemical agent instructor a few years. The bottom line is you are responsible where that muzzle is pointing. Nearly all of the trigger problems with the Remingtons was the design worked fine as long as the oil was fresh. When the oil got old and sticky and oxidized like all petroleum derivatives will do, the trigger would fail. When owners who cleaned and oiled their rifles to excess and stood them up in storage the excess oil would migrate downward to the trigger where it would accumulate get gummy over time and defeat the delicate designed mechanism. Some guys store their guns muzzle down to prevent this. Living in redneck Texas a lot of self proclaimed firearms geniuses would adjust these triggers to suicidal tolerances and exacerbate the problem. The repair involved detailed disassembly and cleaning adjusting the trigger to safe tolerances and a little graphite for lubricant. Later I went to synthetic lube. I far as I can tell the synthetic lubricant will not deteriorate as bad as traditional petroleum products if at all. When rifles were returned for the Remington recall all they did was shorten the thumb safety bar so it would not lock the bolt when safety was engaged, allowing you to open the bolt with safety still engaged. If you have an older Remington rifle and don't have a gunsmith you can trust I suggest you remove the stock and drown the trigger mechanism in acetone or brake cleaner repeatedly to wash out the gooey stuff as best you can. Work the bolt/trigger/safety repeatedly with the solvent, blow it out with air. Add a minute amount of synthetic oil. Blow it out with air again. Be sure and check function in cold weather, thats when the triggers usually fail due to oil getting gummy at colder temperatures. Watch where that muzzle is pointing ! Craftsman | |||
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| One of Us |
I personally have never had a problem with a Remington trigger. All my Remington's have Timney triggers in them now. I have also swapped out one of my friends 700 trigger with a Timney. Easy fix. | |||
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| One of Us |
Lindy 2...what scares the crap out of me is that he was a serviceman..should have had SOME firearms training. Why was the gun was loaded in a gun case, one in the chamber. Then he points the damn thing toward a wall. He claims the gun "went off" Bullshit , I say. Why not a least open the bolt? Isn't that the first thing anybody with three or four brains cells always does? No..this guy got off and he should have been held responsible. | |||
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One of Us |
I have owned more 700s than any other rifle. I will continue to own more 700s when I am back stateside and 700s are a common animal. I replace all of mine with two stage triggers. I have Hubers, Timneys and a few others. I want to try the Bix N' Andy and the Tubb. I have owned single stage Remington triggers from Jewell, Timney and Shilen. I will never own another one. | |||
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| one of us |
Gummy at low temperatures may mean paraffin precipitation from using cheap oil. I used turbine oil for years , one of the most highly refined oils .Had a very good 'additive package . Synthetic oils should be good also. Cheap oil and using too much oil in my experience are the two big lube problems. | |||
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| One of Us |
WHY! | |||
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| one of us |
Duane, did the 1100's come in for trigger issues, or something else? | |||
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| One of Us |
Remington wanted us to just replace assemblies..no gunsmithing involved !!! So to answer your question..we replaced many a trigger group, though there was seldom trigger issues, usually carrier issues, which of course was a part of the trigger group. Not to "knock" 1100'a...seems many owners of these guns REALLY used them...very popular on the trap fields. Reloaders could never really destroy them, though they gave it a good try | |||
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| One of Us |
Craftsman's advice should have been included with the new rifle! Just like owners manuals for new autos tell you that you must change engine oil | |||
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| one of us |
Thanks! | |||
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One of Us |
I have 3 700s. one is a '72, and 2 newer ones ('03 ish) but no mark X trigger. after repeatedly opening and closing the bolt on my 7mag (empty) in the house, i got a few firing pins to drop while closing the bolt. i immediately ordered a Timney and have had no problems since. on my 338RUM, i was at the range and let a friend shoot the rifle. he was laying prone, gun on bipod pointing downrange, and for some reason he flipped off the safety before his cheek was even on the rifle. the gun went off. as the 338RUM has significant recoil, the safety cut his thumb pretty good and i'm sure his wrist was sore. he claims his finger was not on the trigger, but IDK. i replaced that one with a Timney as well just in case. | |||
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| one of us |
Well Im pretty open minded and believe proper gun handling is the safest bet, but there are a lot of folks in the hunting world having accidents.. The one thing I know is there is an outstanding number of trigger deaths that Remington has paid off to keep out of court, and a number of cases pending..Where there is smoke there is fire. I have no dog in this fight, and don't intend to..I read Jacks book, I was impressed, but my opinion makes not one difference to me or anyone on this thread, only the courts and our system of juris prudence can settle this argument. oh yeah, and Washington politics!  All that aside, who wants a damn push feed rifle!   Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I like the two stage, it works for me and is physically safer. Lots of people do not, this is what Jewells are made for. Two stage triggers have been on the majority of military bolt action rifles, and modern military sniper rifles since the 1890s. Must be something to it. | |||
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| One of Us |
I got a Rem 700 made in 1962 and it has whatever trigger came on it. the rifle has fired thousands of rounds, for the last 25 years it was used as part of the hunter education live fire classes. Each student would fire it 3-5 times, there were 25 students per class, average 3 classes per year. If you do the arithmetic you'll see that at least this M700 has a statistically reliable trigger since in all of those years, with all levels of experience in users, including the first 15 or so years where it was my primary hunting rifle, the trigger has never failed to operate properly. So either I was lucky with the rifle, or Remington fixed something that wasn't broke. | |||
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| One of Us |
I might if I were in the military, maybe. | |||
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| One of Us |
Military two stage triggers act as a secondary "safety" feature. Pretty much the reason they exist. | |||
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| One of Us |
I used one for 20 years, and I have continued to use them almost exclusively since. | |||
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| One of Us |
I took my father on an antelope hunt back in 2004. He brought his Remington 700 in 308 Win. On his first stalk the rifle fired when he took the safety off. He had the rifle pointed down range so none was hurt. He thought at the time he had to have bumped the trigger so He cycled the bolt in case the buck stopped but the rifle fired once the bolt was fully closed. He was done. He unloaded the rest of the cartridges and used my rifle. Back at the bunk house I was able to replicate both failures using snap caps. Proper gun handling prevented any problems. The rifle now sports a Timney trigger. The hunt took place in New Mexico and it was a very dusty hunt. | |||
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| One of Us |
Should have added that the best safety lies between the operator's ears. All mechanical systems can fail given the proper conditions and circumstances. I am sure the vast majority of the tragedies could have been prevented with proper gun handling. | |||
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| One of Us |
I haven't had a 700 in my shop for maybe 25 years, so I'm not up to speed on these after market two stage triggers. My question: Do they have the variable sear engagement inherent to a Mauser, Springfield, etc | |||
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| One of Us |
I can't tell you which trigger it had in it before we changed it out. My father acquired the rifle used 35 years ago back in 1982. I have no idea what may or may not have been done to it prior. Supposedly belonged to the mother of one of my dad's friends. We did not have the trigger altered after acquiring it. Rifle functioned fine until it did not. Jack Belk was doing some work for me at the time and recommended I swap the trigger out so I did. The Timney I stalled does not feel like the two stage triggers I used in the Army. No creep, minimal over travel, breaks clean at 3.25 pounds. | |||
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One of Us |
While a jury is called the "trier of fact", juries only determine facts in the eyes of the court. Does anybody think OJ really didn't kill Nicole? The vast majority of lawsuits are settled out of court because the cost of litigation, exceeds the cost of a settlement. That is not a determination of fault. Mike Never under estimate the internet community to use any opportunity to reply to a post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence problem.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
Careful now. Every year or so it seems that we hear about somebody on death row being released because new evidence proves innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless a person is actually there to experience what has been alleged all they can do is make inferences about what they are shown or hear. The human condition causes different people to make different inferences about the exact same evidence, depending on their own experiences, biases, and beliefs. Far too often people make judgements about facts based on irrelevant fallacies. A common one of those would be Post Hoc or false cause, which is going from sequence to consequence. A simple example would be that because fact a precedes fact b does not necessarily make a the cause of b. There are a lot more, and people would be shocked to know how many people have been convicted of crimes based on these fallacies. Whether a person thinks somebody did something is a lot different than whether they know somebody did something. | |||
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| one of us |
I'm not a gunsmith but I'm pretty sure I've owned at least 30 Model 700 rifles and I have a couple in the safe today. I adjusted the triggers on all of them to usable weight. I had one problem in that the sear's edge where it engaged the trigger literally broke off making a light and clean let off impossible. My current 700's have Timney triggers as I think they are a little better and very easy to install and adjust. My non professional opinion is that a lot of the problems as Butch said are from folks trying to adjust trigger weights and sear engagement to such a degree that about anything will set them off. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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| One of Us |
lindy2, Couldn't agree more. Similarly evidence is not fact(s). The number of traffic accidents where one witness says the light was red and one witness says the same light was green for the same direction is unbelievable. The witness's statements are evidence, not facts. Mike Never under estimate the internet community to use any opportunity to reply to a post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence problem. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| new member |
For me the old 700 trigger is as good a factory trigger made. (The one with the flat knob.) I have 3 custom rifles using 700 actions. Two have the old actions ,5 or 6 digit serial #. One is a newer action which I put a Jewel trigger on. Never had a problem with mistake fires. Just keep them clean and dry. | |||
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one of us |
Bought a brand new LH 700 in the early 80s and had it go off twice in my first season - when pushing the safety forward. First was in the field and I was convinced it was not me (but had a lingering question in the back of my mind). Couldn't get it to do that again that day. A couple of weeks later I went to the range and on the second attempt it went off - it was a no doubter. Had a Remington warranty shop work on it - never a problem since. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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| One of Us |
I have never had a trigger problem with a Remington 700, simply because I wouldn't own one. Back in the '70's, when I made an ill fated foray into the gun business, I was cycling a 700 which I had taken off the rack in the shop, and the bolt handle came off in my hand. I decided then and there that there was no place for such a rifle in my gun room. I do own a couple of rifles based on 40-X actions, but they are dedicated target rifles and their safeties are never used. I met Mike Walker, who designed the 700 series of Remington rifles, back in the '60's at a bench rest match. I followed his writings for years in Precision Shooting magazine. He is a bench rest shooter with a bench rest shooter's mentality. You don't use safeties in bench rest matches and if a bolt handle comes off, then you don't get to complete the competition. Nothing is going to eat you or trample you to death. When Winchester switched to a cost cutting mode and abandoned the pre-64 Model 70, they made some mistakes with their re-designed rifle, but none that I am aware of which endangered the shooter or innocent bystanders. | |||
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| One of Us |
Mike Walker was a BR shooter. He passed away over 4yrs ago. The 40X bolt handle and receiver were the same as the 700. Why would you want the 40X then? | |||
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| One of Us |
The Remington 700 trigger is a good design but it is not failsafe. no trigger system is including the Winchester mod.70. You just cannot adjust much on a mod.70. If you do mess with it you will likely have the joy of finding the firing pin released and the safety inoperable. Since the mod.70 trigger only has a couple of parts and they are in the open it is less likely to accumulate debris but it is still incumbent on the gun handler to follow all safety rules. Liability lawyers found out early on they could dupe a jury into stealing from the golden goose to pay for some unfortunate dweeb's idiocy in gun handling. For what it's worth Winchester's bolts are a three piece design if I'm remembering correctly. Remington makes a good product that was designed with accuracy and cost effectiveness in mind. It has stood the test of time as there are millions of them in circulation. They drove Winchester to redesign the pre 64 just to compete. If you own a mod 700 with a factory trigger treat it well and keep the trigger group clean and respect gun safety rules as you should be doing with any other firearm. Safety is up to you. Guns can't think for you. Joe | |||
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| One of Us |
If the handle comes off the bolt of a 40X in the middle of a rifle match, I am unlikely to be eaten or trampled to death. I just pack up my gear and move off the firing line. I have been in several situations in the hunting field where that would not be the case. Mike Walker also is credited with originating the .222 Remington cartridge, which took the bench rest world by storm, and incidentally served as the inspiration for the .223 Remington. | |||
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