how important is it to you to have provenance on a custom gun??..... other than the makers' name engraved on the barrel???... would it mean anymore to you to have a description on the makers' letterhead???...thanks, jim

As in all things regarding provenance it is the "who" that is most important.

A nice rifle that has "Holland & Holland", "Griffin & Howe", "Westley Richards", or even "L'atelier Verney-Carron" in gold on the action will have more demand and command more respect years from now than one that says "Henry Beagle Arms", "John Smith Gummaker", "Spangler", or "Claptrop Ltd." Convention and "good taste" also make a difference. Even the best maker's mark will lose appeal if the firearm is so decorated, scrolled, and embellished that it looks gaudy. If a firearm lacks either of those it will be desirable if it was owned by a notable person or used to perform a notable task. Billy the Kid's revolver, Jack O'Connor's .270, the Winchester John Wayne carried in Hondo, the rifle that took the maneaters of Tsavo, and Saddam Hussein's gold plated and heavily engraved AK-47 are examples. Factory letters, references in print, correspondence, photographs of the firearm with a prominent person or activity, and original accessories can add a lot.

Not as important as quality of build. Provenance is a good place to start. However, the price still has to match the craftsmanship. Have you seen some of the wood/metal gaps on some Mauser 98's offered new these days? Gaps like that do not belong on a $15,000 rifle.

I think of provenance as more of the history of the firearms ownership or use, rather than the maker. There's certainly no doubt that a rifle with an acclaimed makers name engraved on it will fetch more than a custom of equal quality from an "unknown" or less noted maker. But I see provenance more as described by Grenadier...who used it, did it have a specific purpose or place in history, etc. No matter how elegant a Model 95 Winchester one might find, it's value would be a fraction of the value of the one used by Teddy Roosevelt on his 1909 safari, memorialized in his book as his "Big Medicine".

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
... would it mean anymore to you to have a description on the makers' letterhead???...

The real value there is if the maker's name is not on the rifle--as it isn't on many rifles, some by the top makers.

When it comes time to sell, the more "proof" you have who made it, the better. Buyers will seldom just take your word for it. There could be thousands of dollars difference for a rifle that is well documented vs. nothing to indicate the maker.

A true custom firearm should always, imho, come with a build letter.

quote:

Originally posted by vicvanb:

The real value there is if the maker's name is not on the rifle--as it isn't on many rifles, some by the top makers.

Pray tell, other than some small one-man gunsmithing operations, who is making rifles and not putting their name on them?

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Pray tell, other than some small one-man gunsmithing operations, who is making rifles and not putting their name on them?

It is quite common to find custom rifles made during the 1970s and 1980s that are unmarked with the maker's name. I recently sold two examples--an Al Biesen and a Bob Emmons, and I've seen quite a few others.

I say again, other than some small one-man gunsmithing operations, who is making rifles and not putting their name on them? I am especially eager to learn of such a thing with, as you said, "some by the top makers".

If the gun is not hallmarked, signed, has a correct barrel address or there are receipts with the gun You Don't Know who worked on it.

Most all high quality European guns have barrel addresses or some distinctive markings, but not all.

I have a number of early American custom Springfield's (1930-40s) in the shop at the moment and other than one that came, with provenance, from Michael Petrov's collection I wouldn't attribute any single one to anyone regardless of how much savvy I might think I have.

I see custom guns attributed to me on a fairly regular basis. The fact is I was never very prolific, I began hallmarking my work in 24kt gold very early on and I have documented each and every complete custom project. No questions there...

If I had a choice I would have the makers name discretely lettered someplace.If I know who made my rifle then that is good enough.I get turned off when the makers name or symbols become a significant part of the art work.

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
The fact is I was never very prolific, I began hallmarking my work in 24kt gold very early on and I have documented each and every complete custom project. No questions there...

I can tell your guns because the screws never run for and aft, but the stocks are out of this world.