The true expert has gained his knowledge through many years of hands on experience and study. He speaks in facts. ...The self-proclaimed expert has little knowledge or facts, but rather combines trivia, bull-shit and arrogance that he tries to portray as knowledge. His words should be ignored. ...Dave Wesbrook

Well stated.

Unfortunately, the internet is home to more of the latter than the former.

If you think about it, a true expert is probably:

1. Working on/building rifles

2. Busy hunting

3. Not driving a keyboard 24/7

And the true expert never claims that he is, whereas the "expert in his own mind" types will remind you frequently of it.

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
The true expert has gained his knowledge through many years of hands on experience and study. He speaks in facts. ...The self-proclaimed expert has little knowledge or facts, but rather combines trivia, bull-shit and arrogance that he tries to portray as knowledge. His words should be ignored. ...Dave Wesbrook

With regard to the latter classification, did you have anyone in mind?

Not going to go there.

I might add that most true experts are still questioning and learning

quote:

I might add that most true experts are still questioning and learning

An apt statement from a true expert.

Well, except the part about spray-painting fine rifles with Rustoleum :-)

Phil, You are entirely correct. The search for knowledge never ceases. ...The finest Gunmaker that I've ever known once told me that "if I ever thought that I had done something perfectly, that I had either ceased to strive for perfection, or no longer knew what perfection is." Those words have been both a curse and a godsend to me. ... Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Well, except the part about spray-painting fine rifles with Rustoleum :-)

HEY -- I have continued to add layers of differing colors over the years

Mr. Wesbrook's book "Professional Stockmaking" is available on Amazon.com at a discounted price, which I just took advantage of.

Amazing things, computers....

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
The true expert has gained his knowledge through many years of hands on experience and study. He speaks in facts. ...The self-proclaimed expert has little knowledge or facts, but rather combines trivia, bull-shit and arrogance that he tries to portray as knowledge. His words should be ignored. ...Dave Wesbrook

Well then, we should just have Saeed and Don pull the plug on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I might add that most true experts are still questioning and learning

Well shit I guess that didn't go according to your plan now did it..............

You forgot and glad to help.............

Oh well not a biggie, after all only God can point the finger.

FMC. I have re-read your posts concerning the thumb notch and have a personal opinion on how you classify. ...My question to you is why did you break into an otherwise serious thread with private jokes and barbs directed at 458 win??

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

Oh well not a biggie, after all only God can point the finger.

GOD has fingers ?
Must be why we need thumb slots in Mausers.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

Oh well not a biggie, after all only God can point the finger.

GOD has fingers ?
Must be why we need thumb slots in Mausers.

See, now the mystery is solved!
Don

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

GOD has fingers ?
Must be why we need thumb slots in Mausers.

There it is.
And by the way, David, great book. Love it. I'm looking forward to putting it fully into practice.

It is good to see both Dave and Phil here on AR on a regular basis.

Many times I do not post because of the self proclaimed experts.

BUT as my Father taught me years ago, An Expert was a drip that was under pressure, but a Professional is a person who has taken the time to study his vocation, and takes pride in performing a service.

James Wisner

Most of the true experts I've encountered are still trying to figure it out; just at a whole different level and it's the finer points they are still working on. (Most of which mere mortals didn't even realize were issues).

"An expert in anything works only to please themself, no one else matters." ... Grissum C.S.I.

Not sure what prompted this thread but Gun Forum 101 dictates one not to take the jokers too seriously if one is to otherwise enjoy the good things a quality forum like AR can offer.

Another thought for this thread:

An amateur practises until he gets it right, but a professional practises until he can't get it wrong.

And there is a reason why the old apprenticeships were about 10,000 hours, that's how long it takes for a human to fully learn a complex task - whether bit be as a machinist, horseman or artist.

An Expert or a specialist, is a person, WHO has learned more and more about less and less, and in the end knows all about absolute nothing.

The more i have learned, the more i have realized, that i dont know

quote:

And there is a reason why the old apprenticeships were about 10,000 hours, that's how long it takes for a human to fully learn a complex task - whether bit be as a machinist, horseman or artist.

There is a lot of truth in that statement. I have a 9th degree sensei that told me that if you do something 100 times you remember it. If you do it 1000 times, you begin to know it. If you do it 10,000 times you realize that you will never really UNDERSTAND it, but you will continue to try.

I imagine the same is true with gunsmiths.

what an amazingly profound statement...

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
The true expert has gained his knowledge through many years of hands on experience and study. He speaks in facts. ...The self-proclaimed expert has little knowledge or facts, but rather combines trivia, bull-shit and arrogance that he tries to portray as knowledge. His words should be ignored. ...Dave Wesbrook

Well then, we should just have Saeed and Don pull the plug on AR.

+1
Ain't that the truth!

No offense guys,

but there is a lot to be said for operating within a narrow band of mediocrity.

GWB

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
GOD has fingers ?

Of course she does.

One big difference between an expert and a self proclaimed expert is that the true expert knows how to correct his mistakes.

No matter who you are or how much you think you know if you look around there is always someone that knows more about a particular point of a subject than you do - I guarantee it.

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
The true expert has gained his knowledge through many years of hands on experience and study. He speaks in facts. ...The self-proclaimed expert has little knowledge or facts, but rather combines trivia, bull-shit and arrogance that he tries to portray as knowledge. His words should be ignored. ...Dave Wesbrook

SR4759, I fully agree that "there is always someone that knows more about a particular point of a subject than you do" ....the object is to learn from each of them. ...I notice that you have made almost 30 posts in the past few days and over 10,000 in slightly less than five years. How do you deal with knowing that for every point that you've made that there is always someone out there that knows more than you do? Or is it that perhaps you hide behind narcissistic arrogance?

What was the purpose of this thread? Did I miss a good dustup?

John, The purpose of this thread was to simply point out that there is alot of information out there, some good but mostly bad. Unfortunately many believe anything they see in print and that is bad. You must consider the source in order to evaluate the value of the information

I think it takes a lot of narcissistic arrogance to start a thread pontificating about experts here.

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
SR4759, I fully agree that "there is always someone that knows more about a particular point of a subject than you do" ....the object is to learn from each of them. ...I notice that you have made almost 30 posts in the past few days and over 10,000 in slightly less than five years. How do you deal with knowing that for every point that you've made that there is always someone out there that knows more than you do? Or is it that perhaps you hide behind narcissistic arrogance?

See my response to John above...

Never ever tell anything based on live tested facts, and real expierience. No one would ever belive you.

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
See my response to John above...

Mr Westbrook, you are clearly not an expert.

At only 28 posts, you are way behind the curve. Compared to SR4759's postings, you should have spent much more time online dispensing advice. At 5.9 comments per day "Expert" average, you should have made at least 424 posts in the 10 weeks since you joined the forum.



BTW, thanks for bringing back your out of print book. I'm sorry to say I couldn't bring myself to pay the $150 (which is what it was bringing on eBay a while back) market price. At least a few of us were willing to pay a lot of $ for the words of an actual expert. Perhaps Mr4759 has a book we can put on our bookshelves....

quote:

Originally posted by A7Dave:
[BTW, thanks for bringing back your out of print book. I'm sorry to say I couldn't bring myself to pay the $150 (which is what it was bringing on eBay a while back) market price. At least a few of us were willing to pay a lot of $ for the words of an actual expert. Perhaps Mr4759 has a book we can put on our bookshelves....

I received my copy Thursday and have thoroughly enjoyed leafing through it. At my age, I don't imagine I will be taking up stockmaking, but it gives me a better appreciation of those who do.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
Never ever tell anything based on live tested facts, and real expierience. No one would ever belive you.

I have been hoping you would weigh in on this.

As much as you rub people the wrong way(myself included at times) I don't believe there is anyone else who had the experience you do with testing actions to the failing point.

I would really like to hear your thoughts on the Mauser thumb slot and the Mauser's gas handling capabilities.