In the process of having a LH .375 H&H made. Action is SS, and barrel will be as well, but I want a durable, non-reflective finish on all parts possible. Hope to start hitting Alaska again, and even SS can't resist some of the punishment there.

Had a similar build done 8 years ago at Briley - but RH - and they sent it off and had a coating they called "ionbonding" applied. They coated everything - trigger assembly, scope mounts, action screws, etc. It has held up well, and if it gets scratched, some rigorous rubbing seems to "heal" the holiday. Aside from wear on sharp edges, it's been a good coating (very dark gray, "light" black, soft feel). Seems like every time I try to deal with Briley, however, they find a way to piss me off.

Quick search on the internet shows quite a range of options now for coating barrels and parts, along with many claims - some of which are as hard to believe as Hilary.

If anyone has some relevant experience and firm suggestions - I would appreciate it.

I got all of the metal work on my custom Remington Mountain Rifle in 6.5mm SAUM Cerakoted in black. Matches in perfectly with my McMillan McWoody stock (black and brown swirly, looks like walnut). Actually, I've had half a dozen guys mistake the McWoody for a walnut stock.

Can't comment too much on its durability yet, apart from a little bit of wear on sharp edges of the receiver. I guess that's unavoidable. However by every account I've read, it's the toughest and most durable coating on the market.

Some folks say you shouldn't do it to Stainless, but I do and I have to CrMo steel too. The finish of choice for me now a days is Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, Trade names at Tuffride (hemi cranks), tennifer, Melonite.

There's a salt bath method, Plasma method and I guess its the salt bath that also called QPQ.

All I can tell you is that it is used extensively to make stuff more survivable in the oil fields down the bore hole where stuff like sulfur dioxide which is horribly corrsive is encountered.

Glock, Steyr and Mauser use it as I suspect some others do . I have customs done with it and when cleaned with alcohol g96 will actuall bead up on it. it's slick and hard and supposed to be about 1000 times more corrosion resistant than Moly disulfide loaded paints.

It would be and is my choice.

I'll soon be sending a Shilen select match AR barrel off to have it done once I've put 50 to 100 rounds down it for smoothing.

If you are using Melonite QPQ do not put any rounds through it until treated

I used Falcon Coat (http://falcongunfinishing.com/) and am very happy with it. It looks like a matt blued finish similar to rust bluing.

quote:

Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:
I used Falcon Coat (http://falcongunfinishing.com/) and am very happy with it. It looks like a matt blued finish similar to rust bluing.

I think it is cerakote. A good finish with a lot of colors available.

Cerakote.

Get in touch with RoBar industries. They have a finish called RoGuard II. They can/will NP3 the internals, which also smooths them out, and coat the outside in any color you want. Very tough and durable.

The Glock finish along with other makes is carbonitriding + an oxidizing layer.The diffusing carbonotriding provides great wear resistance while the oxide layer provides rust proofing .Hard to beat !!
As for coatings the hard chrome plating is about the best .

Curious, do the coatings wear better than hot bluing or rust bluing? The rifles I have that are blued end up showing significant signs of wear/bluing loss where I carry them in the field (generally toward the muzzle end of the barrel with the "African carry" on your shoulder) because my hands sweat. I was curious if the coatings tend to wear better and be more impervious to things like sweat.

Mike, Duane had the Falcon Coat done for me on the stainless barrel of the 7-30 Waters martini he built for me. After five years, the finish on the barrel still looks like new.

Thanks for the input. Cerakote has quite the following, and where I'll likely go. Need to research ROBAR a bit more though - especially their NP3+.

To Mike's question - yes. Looks like coating technology may have improved since my last effort - ionbonding - but after 8 yrs of getting lugged around, with a fair amount over the shoulder and holding the muzzle end - there's no discoloration or wear where it has been held.

You should take a look at Black T by Birdsong. I have had several guns done by them.

Thanks for the feedback. Anyone ever had a double rifle coated?

At the present Melonite QPQ is my favorite protection for corrosion and wear. The black finish may wear, but the corrosion and wear resistance is still there. It is not a coating, it is basically a case hardening process.
I have a couple rifles that have been cerakoted and they look good as well as my 2 Birdsong black T rifles. I've been trying to find a person or company to do a PVD WCC coating. I handled and cycled "Newguy's" Titanium rifle that Satterlie built for him. It was incredible smooth and no known wear. I sent it to Oeerlikon Balzars after several conversations with them. After having it for 3 weeks I called to check progress and was told that they wouldn't do a serialized part and sent it back to me. I was out $60 shipping and ins. I called Richter Precision as they had been doing firearms for many years. They gave me an engineer as my contact. She asured me that they specialized in firearms and did factory work for the pistol MFGs. I spent another $60 shipping and ins. shipping to them. I called after 2 weeks and was told they would move forward when they had my FFL. I told them it was BS and I didn't need a FFL to ship it to them. They said they didn't care what the law was. They said they made their own laws. I said I would have a FFL sent to them and they said no since the FFL did not ship it to them. I received it back after losing the price of shipping again.
Hope you guys have better luck than I.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Thanks for the feedback. Anyone ever had a double rifle coated?

I've thought about it - at least for my PH model. I think you should experiment with that Sabatti - do all parts - internal and external - and report back!

I may ask JJ about it. My only concern would be how the process or the coating might affect the solder that joins the barrels. With a Heym, if you did the barrels and the trigger guard you would be good to go. Not sure I would even mess with the Anson forend release or any of the internals. I am more interested in something that would prevent the wear on the barrel from carrying the rifle.

Nhoro, I really like Robar's NP3+. I've had a few machine gun bolts plated with it and +10k rounds later they still look brand new and carbon wipes off with windex and a paper towel. Ease of clean up was why I got it done, but it is slick too.

Rob

Call RoBar and discuss your wants with them.

Maybe I use a gun too hard, but all those baked on finishes scratch and wear..IMO SS should be bead blasted to cut glare, and Chrome molley needs to be old world rust blued..

The best finish ever seems to be the Rem 722 and 721, its beautiful and never seems to wear no matter what, except on the bottom metal...I have owned a couple and used them to death and still have a 300 H&H and the metal is like new as is everyone I see or have seen at gunshows, pawn shops, sporting goods stores, in Africa, and the NW Territories...Why is that? I have no clue and I don't know the process they used but its the best obviously.

But all the old hunters I know in Alaska, the guys that live in the scary places all winter seem to like Stainless steel and those wretched plastic stocks, and I know with a modicum of care those two products probably work better than anything else. For someone like myself who whould spend 10 days hunting, I have never have a problem with rust blue and wood stock cleaned and wiped of all oil, wipe them off each evening helps a lot..Were I to live there all winter I would buy a Ruger 77 all weather, add a SS scope and treat it like a tool.

On my Ruger #1 stainless steel 375 H&H I used a purple Scotch Bright pad. You can go in a straight line, or create a pattern. Cuts the glare a lot. Not bad looking either.

Butch - A question regarding your comment on QPQ and firing the barrel.

I would have thought that it might be good to put a few rounds down the barrel (aka "break it in") to smooth out the throat before sending off for QPQ treatment.

My thinking was that after the QPQ process, the resulting increase in surface hardness might make it more difficult to polish the throat to any measurable extent.

I know you are quite knowledgeable with this stuff so appreciate your input and experience

Bob

If you'd like the stainless steel blued, these guys do an excellent job:

http://www.intermountaingunsmithing.com/#our-story

quote:

Originally posted by Blackbart2:
Butch - A question regarding your comment on QPQ and firing the barrel.

I would have thought that it might be good to put a few rounds down the barrel (aka "break it in") to smooth out the throat before sending off for QPQ treatment.

My thinking was that after the QPQ process, the resulting increase in surface hardness might make it more difficult



to polish the throat to any measurable extent.


I know you are quite knowledgeable with this stuff so appreciate your input and experience

Bob

Only breakin the barrel needs is cleaning up the "fluff" the chambering reamer leaves in the throat-leade area. I use some 0000 steel wool wrapped around a brass cleaning brush. I power it with an electric drill in the throat area only for about 5-10 seconds. A quality barrel has already been lapped and this throat area is the only thing that needs "broken or run in".
I do this before having the barrel treated and I also do a rigorous cleaning procedure before shooting after treatment.

Worlds greatest low tech metal coating. Remember where you heard it first.

This is not for the purist, but it works really well. Once it cures in a few weeks, it is tougher than boiled owl shit. (which we all know is very good.)

Please don't laugh -it works !
I.S.Y.N. ( I shit you, not.)

OK, are you sitting down?

Try Kraylon Dual Superbond rattle can spray paint. It's a rust paint commonly used for garden furniture/ornaments. Comes in nice satin colors. I usually heat the barrel action up to about 150 deg F. in the oven before I blast the paint on.

I have done it on three rifles and some people, even sober ones, are impressed. Try it before you blog me with all those short words that you like to use.

If you don't like the result, whack it off with steel wool or use your rifle as a garden ornament. Also easy to touch up. And, you can have your own color matching rifle and camp furniture.



I know it sounds very "mickey mouse" but it's good. Give it a try and send me some of the money you will be saving. I need it for my buffalo fund. Brian

I have a left hand stainless Tuger m77 in .375 Ruger. I had it ceracoated in a green finish. Bolt and some fittings are black. The outfit that did the work is CCR Refinishing in Greeneville, TN.

Other than the rattle can finish, all these seem like high tech stuff, most of which I've never heard of, except for the Robar finish.

Kinda surprised no one mentioned the old military standard Parkerizing. How does it stand up to these new finishes?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
IMO SS should be bead blasted to cut glare.

+1 If non-reflective is the goal and the parts are SS, I'd say just bead blast. It's a finish that's easy to repair. You can also rub it with steel wool after blasting and it turns a darker grey similar to the way ruger SS rifles look. If you want a camo type pattern, you can do ceracoat with stencils and such. There's always hydrodipping or rattle cans to get a camo pattern.

I'll add to the Cerakote fans. Had a Marlin 444 coated last year because the bluing was half-gone. Graphite black looks exactly like satin bluing and has been tough as nails so far. On the loading gate, I saw some wear, but it turned out to be the brass scraping off on the (still in tact) coating. Thumbs up.

Well, seems like it took forever, but it's finally done - ROBAR NP3+ coating on all metal - scope rings included. Bit bright, but not quite as reflective as straight SS. Norwegian GRS stock with adjustable cheek and LOP. Jewell trigger. Builder left the barrel very heavy, but it is a tack driver. Only tried Barnes VOR-TX factory ammo - 300 grain TSX - but it consistently prints sub-MOA. Pleased so far!

Your pictures are bigger than my 60 inch tv screen and can't be seen on a computer.
Anyway, everyone is talking about two different types of coatings; one, is PAINT and includes Cerakote, Duracoat, Guncoat, Krylon, and any other thing that is sprayed on and baked on. It is all paint and do not fall for the hype; all of it will wear and scratch off. I have used all of them.
The other type is a chemical transformation of the actual metal, like Nitriding and the like. I know nothing about those.
Remember that all of our Small Arms were built, issued and maintained bright until the 1873. Ok, some rifles were brown or blued but those were not widely used by line troops.
Can you paint a Double Rifle?; Sure; the baking process is lower than the melting point of solder. Even Lead solder. Or use the air cure epoxy type; it is just as good. Still paint.
Hot blue has zero rust preventative properties, and Rust blue is better. Phostpating (Parkerizing is the Trade Name from WW1) is another chemical transformation of steel, and is used to hold oil on the surface, better than any bluing.

H&K parkerizes all their 91,93 and mp-5 type weapons, then topcoats them with epoxy paint. That is the best combo if you are going to use a paint type finish as the parkerizing gives good "bite" for the paint.

Go to CCR Refinishing in Greeneville, TN. They have done many guns for me their house black finish is so close to rust bluing that you can’t tell which is which. They have done several stainless guns for me. Their SIG Black is my current favorite. They have also done OD Green on a Ruger stainless rifle. A whole bolt gun with black bolt and minor bits with a green or brown main color is less than $400

Do you happen to have a picture of their house black finish?

Ok, correct me if Im wrong, but were talking no shine durability, then in a second breath some justify their method by stating "If you don't like it just steel wool it off" Whats wrong with this picture!~

Whatever Dan Wesson uses their 1911 valor 45's.
OR
Something that is extremely difficult to find a company to apply is a "TALON" finish. Titanium Aluminum Nitride. Extremely thin but hard coating. I believe the RC hardness is in the 70's.
You may be familiar with titanium nitride which is the gold coating on drill bits. The Talon is dark grey or black but just as durable.It believe it is plasma applied.
It is also referred to as TIAIN.

EZ

The finish depends on the final intended use and desired cosmetics.

Butch is correct, Melonite QPQ is superior because it changes the surface properties of the metal. Just adhere to limitations regarding virgin barrels, the right metallurgy on the receiever, etc.

Cerakote is a good catch-all coating with many colors. I have two rifles done in it.

I haven't tried the Robar stuff, but it's interesting, especially if you are going for a stainless look.

I guess the ultimate durability and flexibility would be Cerakote over stainless.