This is an early model 70 Winchester with a custom tang safety and custom stock. There is also a sliding lock that locks the bolt.Marked on the side of the action below the wood line is "GMF 354"
The barrel is a Bliss Titus in .25-06.

Hopefully the owner will be along to answer any questions.

wow, nice stock!

A damn near perfect rifle wow!

Micheal,

I can tell you only that there was a barreled action on one of the auction sites, (I believe it was a mauser,on Gunsamerica, which I had considered buying for some time).....That action featured a nearly identical slide safety to the one on your gun.

Unfortunately, I can not remember the gunsmiths name but I do remember that it was from a very well recognized classic metalsmith. Accordingly, some one else here should come along that will be able to remember who was doing that work.

JC

With the bolt,

The distinctive shaping of the wood at the ejection port may identify the stockmaker, though not necessarily the metalsmith. Interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
How about George Fullmer

Could be, The only one so far that I can find that match the initials of "GMF" is George M. Fullmer, Oakland , California circa 1961. Did he do stocking as well and of this quality?

An email from someone who knew him confirms that Mr. Fullmer was a metal man.

It's not marked as to who the stock maker was. I have my suspicions but will hold off influencing the jury. The work on this rifle is about as good as it gets and when and if we learn for sure who did it I think that we will recognize the name.

Even though the photo's are good they still leave a lot of questions.

Based on what I can see I have formed an idea.
It might be the metal work ( bolt handle and safty) was done at a differant time and place very possibly by fullmer.

From what I can see the stock looks like it might have been built from a blank machined by Roger Biesen as was common with many west coast stockmakers. The grip cap and buttplate also look like they could ether be Biesen or Niedner.

The bottom metal again without a good photo appears to be Blackburn.

All of this would be a common thread for many guild level gunmakers starting back in the late seventys.

I have severall custom rifles built by the Coffen brothers back in the mid 80's that look very similar to this and they all have the furniture and machine work as mention above.

One thought if I'm right about this stock starting life as a Roger Bieson blank you might e-mail him these photo's and see if he recconises the work.

Some food for thought, If the metal work was done by Fulmer sometime around 1961 or better yet if GMF354 indicates a date (March 54) It would reenforce my Idea of the stock having Biesen links.

If that stock was built in the fiftys or so I would almost surely call it a Biesen but not Roger of course Al.

Fulmer and Biesen both being west coast gunmakers at that time helps a little with the detective work.

Maybe I should have gotten all of my thoughts togather before posting the first time.

After studying the photo's some more I don't belive this is a vintage gun. Maybe the metal work on the action is and maybe Fullmer but the bottom metal looks very Blackburn and I don't think he was selling his before the late 70's. I don't know of anyone makeing a straddle floorplate for the M70 back in the 50's or 60's.

Could be the original gun was restocked at a later date and the straddle BM added then.

I still think this has Biesen lines but since Roger has been selling blanks from their pattern for so long it may be impossible to identify the stockmaker.

The checkering pattern falls apart down by the grip cap wich is a flaw I have seen on a rifle built by AL but on closer examination the grip cap is not a Biesen so I doubt it was built by Al or Roger.

The point pattern from the photo's appears to have a Mullord boarder. I'm not sure but I don't think that was common back before the 70's ether.

Thanks for your comments. I own the rifle and thanks to Michael P. the photos got posted here in an attempt to identify the stockmaker and the gunsmith who built the trigger.

The photos might be slightly out of focus or the light may be diffused, but the checkering pattern does not fall apart near the grip cap. The checkering is pretty much perfectly executed throughout.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
For the stock I am going to guess Kieth Stegal.

quote:

The grip cap and buttplate also look like they could ether be Biesen or Niedner.

At first glance I would have never thought of Keith. However, now that I go back I would have to say that work...and more importantly the wood...look very much like Keiths earlier work.

Additionally, Keith used Biesen butt plate and grip caps on many of his guns.

For those that are not familiar with Keith's work. See the photo of the but end of my gun below and make the comparisons for yourself. In particular while the stockmaking doesn't strike me upfront as definitivley bieng Keith's...that wood absolutely does.

All that being said...I will contact Vic to make a better determination on this.

JC

[/QUOTE]

Below is another photo for comparison...this one focusing on Keiths woodwork more than his wood. (The wood below is not representative of Keiths notable wood.)

This stock is a Model 70 as is the original gun.

JC

quote:

Originally posted by Glen71:
The distinctive shaping of the wood at the ejection port may identify the stockmaker, though not necessarily the metalsmith. Interesting.

Glen,

I agree as well. In fact that is one of the primary reasons I am skeptical that it is Keith Stegall's work despite the other similarities. In particular almost every stock I have seen from Keith whether it be a Mauser, or Model 70, all featured much more rounded softer edges around the port.

JC

Here is a pic of the port on Keith did on the Model 70 above. Notice the much softer lines.

The few Keith Stegall stocks I have seen are marked in the barrel channel with his name.
I have one he did in the early 1950's that is marked with his name.

Additionally, the lines of the cheekpieces show definite differences at both the front and rear extremities. The nondescript stock shows a front cheekpiece termination line that flows forward through the centerline of its wrist while the Stegall stocks both show the front termination lines flowing up into the top lines of the wrists. Also please note the different comb nose fluting/shaping and the different termination treatments of the cheekpieces' shadow lines at their rear ends.

Of course not all stockmakers shape all their stocks the same, at least the really good ones don't. IMO any true artist will constantly experiment with different shapes and techniques to find the most (or least!) pleasing combinations in his eyes, and therefore his creations won't necessarily look like they were all done with a cookie-cutter as so many of today's pantograph-carved stocks do.

One of our local smiths always uses the same pantograph stock pattern and mostly the same imitation wraparound checkering patterns on his supposedly 'custom' rifles. The observer can instantly spot a 'Billy' rifle from across the room; once you've seen one then you've seen 'em all. Yuck, how cheaply boring.
Regards, Joe

When I first viewed the rifle's stock, the name Lenard Brownell popped into my head - probably because of the bolt release treatment, I admit. That, and the early-shape dogleg bolt handle, are two of his trademarks. In this case I believe that the dogleg is actually early factory Win but the bolt release treatment is certainly typical of Len's work. Also, I freely admit, typical of many others.....

I don't know enough about the rest of Len's stockwork to make any comparisons, though; perhaps someone more knowledgeable will comment with some specifics?
Regards, Joe

The bolt handle was not modified except for the 2 checkered panels--it's the original Pre-war Model 70 handle.

akshooter wondered about the introduction date of the Blackburn bottom metal for the Model 70. It was in the mid to late 1960s. Ted's shop was in a portion of a building I leased; he was there for several years starting in the late 1960s and was there when I left the company in the early 1970s. The bottom metal was in production when he moved in, but I have no idea how long before.

Looks like a Bob Emmons stock to my eyes.

I did a bit of research on Emmons while deciding whether or not to purchase one of his stocks. My research indicated that Emmons was more of a lightweight rifle maker, and did not typically incorporate a cheek piece into his stocks in order to save weight.

A little more about George Fullmer...you know, he was still doing work in his shop in the 1990s, so the rifle need not be from the 1950s or '60s.

I don't think he was still turning out complete rifles in the 90's, but he was definitely still doing chambering, barreling, safety work, that sort of thing.

Matter of fact, I almost sent him one of my BR actions to build a rifle on in 1994(IIRC), but there were a number of complaints alluded to in Precision Shooting magazine about his work turn-around times, so I opted to have my "Tall Dog" done by Fred H. and "Briar" H. instead.

But George was a very fine workman who lasted well into the super-accuracy age of benchrest.

Has this gun been on the internet before, if not I remember seeing a stock with an ejection port done like this one once before. I didnt save it or got any info on hand from the other, but damn it, I have seen that port before???

Nice rifle. The tang safety is particularly nice. Have you been able to identify the bolt shroud? Is it custom also? While the shape of the safety button is not unique, it is to those that do rifle tang safeties in this country. A top view of the safety might be of benefit. I assume that the grip cap and the buttplate have been removed and there are no markings under them? When did Bliss Titus barrels cease operations? Something else to consider is that the initial metal work was done in the '50s and that the stock was made later. Say '70s. The squared Rigby style ejection port cut-out is key to the stockmaker. Good luck in your quest.

Bliss Titus himself quit making barrels in rthe mid-to-late 1970s. I believe his operation was taken over by one of the fellas he trained and who worked for him. Sorry I can't recall his name at the moment, though it is now a well-known name and I would recognize it in a heart-beat.

Anyway, the Titus Barrel Company name did continue for a while after Bliss was gone. I believe they did make some more barrels, though they had one of my Mauser actions for several years without finishing the barrel for it.

I finally had to get John Jobson to get a Deputy Sheriff and go over and collect my action for me, as the "Titus" operation (sans Titus himself) would not answer mail or the phone. I was lucky Jack managed to do that for me, as he died shortly afterward just before we were to go on a bear hunt in Alberta.

The nose of the comb is definately in Al Bieson's style. The sharp lower edge on the loading port is definately not in Al's style. I can't see him not rounding the sharp corner as it just doesn't look right. The cheek piece is somewhat similar but is much thicker from top to bottom than one of Al's rifles. I would suspect that he may have sold a stock he ran over his pantograph and someone else made the final design decisions. If it is a Bieson stock, his name will be engraved into the wood on the inside of the stock. He once told me that all of his stocks are so engraved.

465H&H

465H&h

I have no idea who made it but it is a beauty.

Quality wood that should be found on most custom rifles.

As the owner of the rifle--thanks for all your opinions! I still have not been able to identify the maker. The range of opinions here indicates how hard it is to identify custom work unless the maker marks it.

One thing I have learned--stocks from the same maker can vary a lot! Plus, many stock makers are not very helpful in identifying the work of others.

Tommyhawk--I have not seen stockmakers markings under grip caps. Is it common for them to place marks there?

No. It is not common. Neither is the squared out ejection port cut on your rifle. I have seen marks under grip caps and buttplates. Sometimes written in pencil. I've seen makers initials cut into the side of the magazine mortise. Take a look everywhere.
You might contact the Amer. Custom Gunmakers Guild and ask if some pictures can be run in their publication. Maybe make a contest out of it. Who can identify this maker?

quote:

Originally posted by vicvanb:
One thing I have learned--stocks from the same maker can vary a lot!

YES! Many reasons for this: customer desire, smith's experimentation, hidden wood flaw, smith's FUBAR, smith's tastes & desires developing in new directions over time, smith's abilities improving to allow new & different techniques, smith's increasing sophistication leading to new approaches & directions, etc etc.
Regards, Joe

quote:

I have my suspicions but will hold off influencing the jury

OK Michael. Please don't keep us in suspense any longer. Its about time you let us know what your suspicions are!!!!