What happened to all the machinery and tooling used to build the M70 actions at the old New Haven plant?

Probably scrapped as it was ancient (1960s) era technology.

agreed.

The OM 70's required machinists with enough imagination to actually use a file to fit things together, as opposed to the current crew who are likely to not be able to do jigsaw puzzles over 100 pieces.

Did any of the old Winchester builders ever move on and establish their own name or did they merely show up to work and do a good job?

Unlikely many moved on. They worked in a specific department, and pretty much did the same thing over and over.

They were, however, very good at their individual jobs. Those rifles came to production during the Depression, and jobs were too hard to come by not to do your absolute best.

They were also very proud to build the best American made rifles available. Even in today's market, they have no equal for mass produced firearms.

Yes, they worked with worn out machinery.

Not sure of the skill level of some of the employees.

I know they had some industrial-union issues towards the end of the New Haven production.

Some of the Mod 70 Classics that came out of there towards the end were a joke and sullied the Winchester name.

Most of these workers were/are not gunsmiths, nor even good machinists; they are machine operators who make parts. Period. I see it all the time; not their fault but that is the way manufactured goods are made.

unions can cause issues. It seems like every year or two they want a 1-3% raise. Some even have the gall to ask for a raise along the lines of the management team that is tasked with cutting the union members wages and benefits, and retirement pensions.

Sadly, the US can never regress to third world nation status as long as they are around...

Rich, my comments were not intended as a slight towards the unions. Just the fact the worn out machinery and industrial strife combined to affect production quality. At least that was mentioned as the cause at the time, before they ceased production.

Some rifles (i have one of them) had multiple problems that should never have allowed the weapon to pass quality control. I have seen many more including poorly or incorrectly ground receivers (even lopsided receivers), varying ring height meaning gunsmith work to make custon bases etc.

I still prefer the old Mod70 style trigger to the current one.

Cheers, Chris

Yes, that trigger cannot be beat; it baffles me why they quit using it.
But, the M70, being a flat bottomed receiver, is much harder to make than the ones made from bar stock, (which is why you saw the out of spec ones), like Rem 700s, so Win could not compete with Rem and Savage. Only way Ruger can do it is to cast the parts, which works well. And is why Winchester is dead. or has a severe sucking chest wound. No, dead.

I think I read at the time that the machinery and tools were sold piecemeal after the plant was shut down.

Quality issues generally aren't workforce issues. Company policies that lean out production processes to the point that important inspection steps are left out in order to improve profit is a slippery slope that countless companies have followed to their doom. Poor decision making is what happened to Winchester in 1964 and they barely survived it. It takes years to make a reputation and seconds to destroy it.

To say the workforce isn't capable of making a rifle as good as the old ones is silly. In this day and age why would anyone want to make a product in the numbers needed that required hours of hand filing when much better and far more accurate methods are available. What effects the overall quality of the finished product isn't how much hand work is involved, its the control of the processes that manufacture it by what ever method is employed.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
Some rifles (i have one of them) had multiple problems that should never have allowed the weapon to pass quality control. I have seen many more including poorly or incorrectly ground receivers (even lopsided receivers), varying ring height meaning gunsmith work to make custon bases etc.

Your comments pertain to Post-64 M70s, right?? Except for those made in 1963, the Pre-64s were all thoroughly inspected and test fired. They did not leave the factory unless and until they functioned perfectly.

In 40+ years of fooling with them I have seen precious few Pre-64s that had problems, but I've seen quite a few Post-64s like those you described.

quote:

Originally posted by vicvanb:

quote:

Originally posted by Rockdoc:
Some rifles (i have one of them) had multiple problems that should never have allowed the weapon to pass quality control. I have seen many more including poorly or incorrectly ground receivers (even lopsided receivers), varying ring height meaning gunsmith work to make custon bases etc.

Your comments pertain to Post-64 M70s, right?? Except for those made in 1963, the Pre-64s were all thoroughly inspected and test fired. They did not leave the factory unless and until they functioned perfectly.

In 40+ years of fooling with them I have seen precious few Pre-64s that had problems, but I've seen quite a few Post-64s like those you described.

Yes, I could have worded that better. All the pre '64's I have seen have been great.

The rifles I referred to are the New Haven Classic 'pre 64's' particularly the later ones. I have no experience with the push feed post 64's.

Cheers, Chris