Bought this gun recently from a guy who just want a change of scenery

It's a sporterised 7 x 57 but proofed as E J Churchill

Basically I got it for 300 dollars

What would you guys do to it ?

It's shooting 1 MOA with factory ammo But the stock does not fit me well.

Option one

Re blue action action ?
Re oil stock and rebed

Option 2

Do nothing

Option 3

Put something like a walther drop in #1 barrel on it and lose the proof mark

Modify stock so it fits me perfectly

Re bed the rifle

And while I am at it chop new barrel to 20 inches so it handles better





In a way my heart says leave it alone it's shooting ok

But I would love to go the whole way with option 3

Finance is not an issue

Just a fun project BTW

And if you are asking

"NO" I am not selling it

P.S.

I have access to ex holland stock and gunsmith so expertise is not an issue either

According to my learned friend KR who is also on AR

It has FN BOLT and commercial floor plate

I would love to keep it in 7 x 57 and hunt antelope with 162 amax

Or put it another way

Is it worth putting money into this thing to turn it into this

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Gun...Sale/091027215109002

Benjamin,

To fit your stature you require a much higher combed stock. There's 2 issues with this rifle that prohibit this.

1. The low comb of the pictured original wooden stock.

2. The original M98 wing safety.

To leave it in the condition as it is and not do too awful much dicking around with it such as drilling, modifiying, etc.

quote:

In a way my heart says leave it alone it's shooting ok

Options IMO are:

1. Remove the wooden stock and put it away for future as-original use (like Terry recos I'd also dump the ventilated after-market Recoil Pad and install something more sedate, too - like a black solid Pachmayer Old English). Purchase a Hogue overmolded stock for a M98 sporter in whatever color suits your fancy, black, OD green (cool), or camo (Very Posh). Should pretty much be a drop-in.

2. Remove the original M98 wing safety (piece-of-cake; basically screws off and also store with the stock). Purchase a 3-position right-handed swing safety. Your gunsmith will probably/maybe required to tweak this option as he simply screws another safety onto the bolt shroud.

3. With the lowered safety you're now in the Driver's Seat so you can get any vanilla-flavored set of M98 mounts (your choice but Leupold Quick-Release would be a great option for this rifle to go with the what appears to a Leupold scope on it, anyway). You can then mount that scope pretty much as low as you desire.

Violá!

You got a 7x57 shooter that fits you and all the original Bits & Pieces stored away for future as-original condition.

Wait! There's one hick-up!

Is that just the light playing havoc in the photo or was the barrel originally equipped with a Barrel Band Swivel? If so, this is a Cool Factor Plus so have another installed. While you're at it get a Barrel Band Front Sight also and have the original rear sight re-installed. With your stature the scope will be far eough rearwards not to interfere with the sight.

Have Fun!

first think I'd do is get rid of that scope and high rings and replace it with a much smaller bell scope like a 32-33 mm front ring and install it with low rings.....this will move the scope about 3/8" lower to the stock and then decide if you still want different stock dimensions!

Every time I've spent money on a rifle making it into something I thought was cool I've found that the coolness wore off quickly and that in the process I also lost my shirt!

You've got an assortment of high quality guns that do what you want them to do. I see this one as a shooter that even if you put a bunch into it the collector value is IMO gone due to the modifications it has already had. If the stock issue is bad enough that it's not shootable get another one that is.

Or keeping it simple, do what Gerry recommended! There is something to be said for shooting it as close to original as is possible.

Benjamin

Its no best london classic rifle.Its a meat getter. So why fret about what you end up doing with it in order to make it usable.

I'd simply get a Boyds that fits you and have the rifle bedded into that. Swap out the old flip safty for a 3p side version, fit the excisting scope into some low mounts, and chop and re-crown the current barrel to 20".

You then have a 7X57 that you can shoot for less than 700 bucks.

-lose the raised comb, go to an oval cheek piece, let the rest of it ride.

and use it.

you should be ashamed, so ashamed, of only paying three bills for that rifle- sending it to me for the same price will

1) get your money back

2 )allow you to atone for the great sin you have committed.

that's three including shipping, BTW.

Thanks Gerry Thechamp, vapodog and tin can for some excellent advice

I will shoot it for a while and then see

I will definitely re blue the action / barrel

that mark is not a ring band but the spigot of a silencer !

Time for me to learn how to re finish a stock so that's a nice little out of season project

A new scope and mount is definitely in the pipeline

I have my eyes on a Leupold VX-R 2-7x33 with the lowest possible rings that I can get away with

I will post pictures when these aredone

Should be fun

You guys just saved me a bucket load of cash !

quote:

Originally posted by Jools:
Benjamin

Its no best london classic rifle.Its a meat getter. So why fret about what you end up doing with it in order to make it usable.

I'd simply get a Boyds that fits you and have the rifle bedded into that. Swap out the old flip safty for a 3p side version, fit the excisting scope into some low mounts, and chop and re-crown the current barrel to 20".

You then have a 7X57 that you can shoot for less than 700 bucks.

Sounds reasonable, but there's no way I'd put that rifle in a Boyd's stock.

My bluing man is at your disposal, I think he's qualified.

Other than that I'd leave it alone for a season or two and see how you get along with it. There are some nice Zeiss 3-9x36 scopes around, it's not a super long range rifle and so why bother with turrets and funky reticules.

That stock looks like it might just be high enough to suit you.

Our friend can sort out the recoil pad and do something about the fore-end, should end up with a nice rifle, whatever the money.

I am tempted to reserve judgment until we've shot it though!

My first choice scope for such rifle is kahles 2-7 with Multizero

If any body has one please pm me if it is for sale

The Internet fetish for the zeiss has driven prices up like a Rembrandt

The other choices are z3 and varipoints

For once I would love to make it work with the least expenditure and going the most conventional route

Lets see how long this fetish will last .....

Being's a Brit rifle, how about some early Brit styling. Look at the one posted by VonGruff in this thread;

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...in_a_Lifetime_Mauser

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
My first choice scope for such rifle is kahles 2-7 with Multizero

If any body has one please pm me if it is for sale

The Internet fetish for the zeiss has driven prices up like a Rembrandt

The other choices are z3 and varipoints

For once I would love to make it work with the least expenditure and going the most conventional route

Lets see how long this fetish will last .....

I like the Khales but I couldn't convince you to eschew the multi-zero could I?

Clean lines and all that.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Jools:
Benjamin

Its no best london classic rifle.Its a meat getter. So why fret about what you end up doing with it in order to make it usable.

I'd simply get a Boyds that fits you and have the rifle bedded into that. Swap out the old flip safty for a 3p side version, fit the excisting scope into some low mounts, and chop and re-crown the current barrel to 20".

You then have a 7X57 that you can shoot for less than 700 bucks.

Sounds reasonable, but there's no way I'd put that rifle in a Boyd's stock.

Thanks, I thought so. My suggestions might appear a little brutal to some but I have done similar on a number of occassions and things have turned out just fine. No point in getting all sentimental over a old mass produced for the trade meat getter.

I've stuck two old mausers, similar to this rifle in Boyds stocks. Ok you have to do some elbow work with a few hand tools and do your own stock finishing. Which is all part of the fun anyway. They worked out really well. This rifle and the ones I have done certainlty don't and didn't warrent having any serious amounts of money thrown at them.

A re-blue will 'pimp' it up a bit. A classic H&H style stock would update it's appearance from the late 70's look it has now.

Churchills are rock solid Mauser 98's and if it's a shooter, don't fix what isn't broken.

Still doesn't get over that flip over safety issue and the need for high mounts.

Reading between the lines I think Benjamin is what we have to refer to in this PC world that we excist in nowdays as a little challenged anatomy wiseNo offence intended Ben. No 6'8" specimien with a neck like a giraffe here.

I'm sure he'll sort it out one way or another.

I recently had a stock length issue with a new synthetic stocked S/A It was a tad too short and I couldn't source any factory made spacers for this particular model. So I sources some black polyprop ridgid board from a local company who make wind tunnel test models for the automotive industry. A quite Sunday in the workshop with my trusty Dremmel a drill and the buffing wheel and I haved 5 spacers of varying thicknesses. Even if I say so myself the finished job looks quite neat.

i would ask your friend who was working with hollands to do something with the existing stock ....,forend ,grip area ,oil finish the stock and leave it alone ,,its in a leauge with ,,parker hale,interarms whitworth and such whereas its not a bench made gun so if it shoots good now i wouldnt ask much else of it ,,,good news is that what they make now is priced well beyond what you paid and yes they are a benchmade gun ,, ....paul

quote:

I have my eyes on a Leupold VX-R 2-7x33

I have a 7x57 Ruger with 2-7x Leupold on it.

A nice low, tidy number like that is a perfect compliment to this classic round, and in your case, a perfect rifle for it, also.

Hope this doesn't disappoint but this rifle is actually no more or less than an INTERARMS rifle with the name Churchill impressed upon it!

Quite legitimately, as Sam Cummings was the de facto owner of Churchill since the early 1960s. but nevertheless it is no more nor less than that.

I'd do what you want with it. It has no greater value because of the Churchill name than, say, a similar vintage Parker-Hale or BSA rifle.

Indeed from the pictures it seems to have already been altered from its original style which would have had a ramp front sight and, possible, a sidemounted Pecar 4x81 in a quick detachable mounting.

I'd endorse BOTH these comments:

quote:

Every time I've spent money on a rifle making it into something I thought was cool I've found that the coolness wore off quickly and that in the process I also lost my shirt!

I see this one as a shooter that even if you put a bunch into it the collector value is IMO gone due to the modifications it has already had. If the stock issue is bad enough that it's not shootable get another one that is.

quote:

Its no best london classic rifle.Its a meat getter. So why fret about what you end up doing with it in order to make it usable.

I had one of these "Churchill" rifles pass through my hands in the 1980s. IN fact shot my first deer with it in 1990 or thereabouts.

270 Winchester calibre, 24" barrel, sights like yours with Williams type rearsight and with the original Pecar on the original QD sidemount.

In fact the BEST thing about the rifle was the QD sidemount. That would cost a lot of money to re-produce today.

Yours hasn't got that so, as said, I'd do with it what you wish.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
Hope this doesn't disappoint but this rifle is actually no more or less than an INTERARMS rifle with the name Churchill impressed upon it!

Quite legitimately, as Sam Cummings was the de facto owner of Churchill since the early 1960s. but nevertheless it is no more nor less than that.

I'd do what you want with it. It has no greater value because of the Churchill name than, say, a similar vintage Parker-Hale or BSA rifle.

Some people see a "london" makers name on a rifle barrel and go all gooey eyed. LOL

The interesting thing about it is the barrel profile - see how the barrel shank mimics a winchester featherweight. That allows you to mount a scope very low if you can get the mounts. A LW will have a 2-3" parallel barrel shank that a) won't allow that b) will ruin the looks and c) require extensive rebedding.

Were it me I'd bed it, get some better mounts (old Warne Premiers are very good), replace the safety (liable to be expensive in the UK) and ensure it had a decent trigger. With a low scope the stock should be OK.

Hi 1894

Long time no talk , ou must have been busy .

Yes that's exactly what I will do

Re bed , re mount the scope and I am looking for something featherweight which can hug the long sight axis and re bed

I will then re oil the stock my self after removing that recoil and as well which weighs a ton !

Probably in the wrong forum but what the most popular powder for this caliber ?

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
I will then re oil the stock my self after removing that recoil and as well which weighs a ton !

That should reduce the lofp by about an inch if you refit it with a thin plastic butt plate.

How do you propose to over come the flip safety problem when you ref it the the scope on lower mounts.

Timney do a straight swap trigger unit with a 2p side safety. They also do a low profile flip safety .

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Hi 1894

Long time no talk , ou must have been busy .

Yes that's exactly what I will do

Re bed , re mount the scope and I am looking for something featherweight which can hug the long sight axis and re bed

I will then re oil the stock my self after removing that recoil and as well which weighs a ton !

Probably in the wrong forum but what the most popular powder for this caliber ?

Indeed that sounds good

Now place yourself next to an electric fence

Repeat the following words while grasping the fence

VLD

Detachable magazine

Adjustable cheekpiece

Repeat until words cause involuntary whimpering of distress.

ps sorry if the post re detachable mag is a bit OTT but you need therapy!

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Hi 1894

Probably in the wrong forum but what the most popular powder for this caliber ?

I use H4350 for the 160's but H414 has an enviable reputation as well.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Sounds reasonable, but there's no way I'd put that rifle in a Boyd's stock.

I've got a Churchill mauser 243 and it's going to have its stock replaced with a Boyds forest camo laminate......woohoo!!!

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:

I will then re oil the stock my self after removing that recoil and as well which weighs a ton !

Probably in the wrong forum but what the most popular powder for this caliber ?

I've got perhaps a lifetime's supply of stock oils and various other gubbins left over from that kit I bought, I'll help you strip and refinish it. The stock is a blonde if you don't mind me saying, I think it would benefit from significant darkening with Oil of Alkanet before the finish. By the time it's done, assuming enough elbow grease, It ought to look the part.

In terms of powder if you can find the accuracy Reloder 17 might be the one to go for in this calibre. From past experience you can use this stuff to either give you a velocity boost or to maintain velocity whilst keeping pressures low. I would think the latter would be more appropriate in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:

I will then re oil the stock my self after removing that recoil and as well which weighs a ton !

Probably in the wrong forum but what the most popular powder for this caliber ?

I've got perhaps a lifetime's supply of stock oils and various other gubbins left over from that kit I bought, I'll help you strip and refinish it. The stock is a blonde if you don't mind me saying, I think it would benefit from significant darkening with Oil of Alkanet before the finish. By the time it's done, assuming enough elbow grease, It ought to look the part.

In terms of powder if you can find the accuracy Reloder 17 might be the one to go for in this calibre. From past experience you can use this stuff to either give you a velocity boost or to maintain velocity whilst keeping pressures low. I would think the latter would be more appropriate in this case.

The judicious use of that brillent stock enhancer. The black felt tipped pen wouldn't go amiss either. I've seen some wonderfull examples of what they can do on a plain unfigured stock such a the one on your rifle.

As for powders IMR4831, H414, H380, H4350, Reloader15, Reloader 17, Varget, Vit N160, Vit N165. There is a pretty wide selection to cj=hoice from that should produce what you're looking for by way of down range performance and lack of recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Sounds reasonable, but there's no way I'd put that rifle in a Boyd's stock.

I've got a Churchill mauser 243 and it's going to have its stock replaced with a Boyds forest camo laminate......woohoo!!!

Woohoo +1

Nice choice man!

I did the same thing with a John Dickson of Edinburgh .243 several years back. Althugh I used one of Boyds thumbhole stocks. The lad that now shoots it, loves it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jools:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:

I will then re oil the stock my self after removing that recoil and as well which weighs a ton !

Probably in the wrong forum but what the most popular powder for this caliber ?

I've got perhaps a lifetime's supply of stock oils and various other gubbins left over from that kit I bought, I'll help you strip and refinish it. The stock is a blonde if you don't mind me saying, I think it would benefit from significant darkening with Oil of Alkanet before the finish. By the time it's done, assuming enough elbow grease, It ought to look the part.

In terms of powder if you can find the accuracy Reloder 17 might be the one to go for in this calibre. From past experience you can use this stuff to either give you a velocity boost or to maintain velocity whilst keeping pressures low. I would think the latter would be more appropriate in this case.

The judicious use of that brillent stock enhancer. The black felt tipped pen wouldn't go amiss either. I've seen some wonderfull examples of what they can do on a plain unfigured stock such a the one on your rifle.

+1

I was thinking maybe even a burnt-on Japanese Sugo style finish.

LH, what do you reckon?

Thanks guys

I like the idea of a Japanese finish

I will look into that ....

A 7mm Ackley improved chamber will add a couple of hundred yards range to this rifle with the existing barrel length.
Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
+1

I was thinking maybe even a burnt-on Japanese Sugo style finish.

Sounds very exotic.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Is it worth putting money into this thing to turn it into this:

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Gun...Sale/091027215109002

Beautiful rifle. I really like the gold inlaid instructions on how to operate the safety, especially how it was circled to emphasize... (along with the encircled serial number)

I wouldn't have stopped there, however; similar instructions and warnings in gold inlay could only improve on this idea. For example, an inlaid "pull to shoot" encircled with an arrow pointing to the trigger would be a nice touch, and maybe a gold "bullet exits here" on the barrel with an arrow towards the muzzle would increase appeal to the novice custom rifle aficionado while simultaneously informing.

Yeah

Gold inlay instruction in Chinese

You'd need to be extra carefull about whom you let do the engraving. I have seen some very dodgey tattoos written in "chinese" over the years. What you might think says load here with an arrow pointing to the breech might in fact say man has small appendage.

I don't think that Churchill 25-06 is that well executed. The front mount looks wrong and either it has a very long LOP or the cheekpiece is strange.

Personaly I don't like engraving or inlay on bolt rifles. A bit of tasteful case hardening or nitre blue but that's it for me.

ps best safety wording I've seen was on a best quality H&H magazine rifle marked 'safe' and 'fuck'

Maybe, also, a GOLD INLAY in the stock? Just above the magazine/trigger housing?

With an gold inlay arrow pointing rearwards and the word "KNOB"?

Two for one value too. It could refer either or equally to the bolt handle and/or the owner of the gun!

Powell were a fine gunmakers in Birmingham. Then the company changed into what it is today, about five years ago, I wouldn't give a Powell gun a second look today.

Except maybe a sneer...

Just an update guys

HVe now shot the rifle and it loves 156 grain factory Norma pills

We used a 36x weaver on a bench and it was keyholing most shots at 100

So part from blueing I think I am just going to enjoy my purchass for the time being

I will change my euro to Chinese yuan and bank it instead

Just don't deposit your savings with Bank of America.