How long does it take an expert stockmaker to make a stock from a blank. Not talking about finishing or putting final touches on it. Just a fully inletted stock ready to put final touches and finishing on it.

Say starting at 8:00 a.m. and working steadily until noon. then lunch til 1 and then working steadily until 5 p.m.

Can a good experienced maker go from a blank to inletted stock in a day? (not talking about from a copying machine).

I have no idea but I've hear 40 hrs. Unless you take a lot of pictures to show how you do it :-)

That's complete.

Depends on quality of job. Some can do it in a day but a better job may take a week. Bedding compound can cover a bunch of hurry up.

Are you perhaps thinking of a 95% inletted blank?

It only takes a pantograph machine about two hours.

A skilled craftsman like Duane here, or Jim Kobe; pretty much a week to ten days.

quote:

It only takes a pantograph machine about two hours.

That would be after taking the blank. Laying it out. Cutting off extra wood. Mounting the pattern and blank. Getting everything square. Then it might take 2 hrs.

maybe, but I picked out a blank, had it profiled and in the pantograph machine, and 95% inletted in 2 hours. It helps of the man running the pantograph has done a couple thousand before.

I am far from an expert, but the last one that I did took something like 60-70 hours to get to the "time to finish it" point. Then I put another 10 or so in reworking the cheek piece. I spent a few hours a day after work for 4 weeks.

That includes inletting the action, inletting the sling swivels, fitting the butt pad, fitting the grip cap, fitting the forearm tip, and doing a lot of layout, figuring and cussing as I went along. On occasion, I may have just sat and stared at it while I enjoyed a good beer as well.

Mr. Weibe, I think, says it best. Each stock will take what it takes based on design, features, and how easy the wood is to work with.

It is slow work, but I found it incredibly rewarding.

Jeremy

As I recall, Klaus Hiptmayer would start with a blank on Monday morning and it would be shaped, inletted, and ready for finish by Tuesday night. He was pretty fast. There are others who are just as fast and at least as good at it. I can't imagine anyone who is capable of doing this work agreeing to only do half of the job. Regards, Bill

How can anyone answer that question on inletting. Duane Wiebe has the best answer, but like most of the better stockmakers they will not take on a job to just do the inletting. If I didn't do the complete job which would include inletting, shaping, sanding, finishing, and checkering you will have to take the work to the joker down the street which believes he is a pro stocker.

It will take from 40-60 hrs to make a stock and finish out for checkering. At $3.00 an hour it would be less than $200 in 1965 wages. Today you have to pay to play.

I'm no expert but I have three stocks that I started about 17 years ago. I think I will have them done by next summer if all goes well.

Sounds like I am pretty lucky. I am blessed with two good friends in the wood business who work together.

Chris at www.walnutgrovegunstocks.com has a tremendous selection of cured/seasoned blanks, and knows how to run the pantograph machine he owns very well.

That 95% inletted blank sits in my house until its' barreled action is ready to go, then it goes to an old friend, who worked doing stock work for PO Ackley for several years. He takes four to six weeks to finish it, stick 15-20 coats of oil on it, and checker it to suit.

The purpose of this question was simply to determine a fact. I am not looking for a cheap stock or wondering if I can get a stock made cheap. And I am not trying to determine how much it costs to make a stock.
Nor am I concerned how long it takes for a hobbyist to make a stock, or how long it takes to make one on a pantograph.

Perhaps I should be more specific.

1. a normal Mauser 98 action with a normal commercial barrel and stock bottom metal. a piece of walnut.

2, a person working steadily at it throughout the day with the tools they usually use. Someone who has made many stocks and therefore doesn't have to think about it. They just do it.

How long does it take? It was suggested that Mr. Hiptmayer could do a shaped and inletted stock in 16 hours. Is that about right?

The average time for a professional Stockmaker to make a stock depends on the Stockmaker. From a block it takes me 60 hrs to inlet and shape. It takes another 40+ to finish and checker. Some work faster and some slower. Duane is one of the best I know at satisfying his clients. If he says it takes what it takes ...I agree whole heartedly. My average for a completed gunstock is 100 hrs. Based on 24+ years of self employment doing so.

It usually takes me two weeks of 14 hour days to inlet and shape, doing nothing else. Of course owning and running a business means that never happens. One has to answer the phone, talk to customers, talk to suppliers, find/make supplies needed for specific jobs, run errands related to the business, do paperwork, package and ship guns....etc.

Nor am I trying to determine what a specific stockmaker does. That is their business.

Lindy2,
I neither believe your disclaimers nor your explanations of your ulterior motives for your post. Rather I believe that you will use the lowest number of hours that you can find as leverage to try to beat down the price of any stockmaker foolish enough to agree to work for you.
Suggest that you buy a copy of Alvin Linden's and perhaps a copy of my book PROFESSIONAL STOCKMAKING and read them. Between them they will tell you everything about building a stock. Then spend the next ten to twenty years to become an expert and get back to us.

David L Wesbrook

Thank you all for your replies. No need for a stock. Just interested in processes.

I'll tell you exactly how long it takes me. Too long.

Austin Hunter

I looked at both of your recent threads - the one where you made your stock, and the one where you hunted it.

You say it took you too long to make it. If you would have done it as though it was your job, meaning working on it steadily instead of in spurts, how long would you estimate it would have taken you?

Do you think with the experience gained you could now make the next one in half the time, or a quarter of the time, etc.?

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:
Austin Hunter

I looked at both of your recent threads - the one where you made your stock, and the one where you hunted it.

You say it took you too long to make it. If you would have done it as though it was your job, meaning working on it steadily instead of in spurts, how long would you estimate it would have taken you?

Do you think with the experience gained you could now make the next one in half the time, or a quarter of the time, etc.?

I honestly have no idea how long it took other than long enough where I could never make a living at it.

Not sure if I've gotten more efficient at inletting or shaping, but I've definitely gotten more efficient with finishing from stock to stock, but never figured out the time.

I would have been quicker on the last stock, but the mesquite slowed me down. I use a thumb plane to remove wood normally (works great for walnut), but it chipped the mesquite, so I had to use rasps more than normal and that adds time for me.

I am constantly surprised by how frequently our attempts to point out the shortcomings of others divulges so much that is unpleasant about ourselves.

WTF are you talking about?

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
WTF are you talking about?

Surely you know that your scathing judgmental accusations, are what is being referenced. For the part of the poster, he would have saved himself some criticism by declaring his motives for asking the question. I can see how as a professional service provider, you might assume the worst of someone's intentions. I, for one, also see that he could just be curious about the trade, as many gun cranks like myself are, and might even be wondering if this is a profession worth pursuing. Ultimately, what I think Mr. dfcjr is referring to, is your lack of tact and humility in this conversation, both of which being hallmarks of civil discourse. In many situations, our assumptions, while plausable, are best left unstated. Talking to perfect strangers on an Internet forum (and building impressions of yourself in the process), just might be one of those situation. I intend no disrespect to you or anyone else, just putting out my perspective. Mr. Lindy2 could be a Saint or a dirtbag, but I see no evidence here for dirtbag. I usually bite my tongue and watch the schrapnle fly in these situations, but couldn't resist opening my big mouth.
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Lindy2,
I neither believe your disclaimers nor your explanations of your ulterior motives for your post. Rather I believe that you will use the lowest number of hours that you can find as leverage to try to beat down the price of any stockmaker foolish enough to agree to work for you.
Suggest that you buy a copy of Alvin Linden's and perhaps a copy of my book PROFESSIONAL STOCKMAKING and read them. Between them they will tell you everything about building a stock. Then spend the next ten to twenty years to become an expert and get back to us.

David L Wesbrook

What the heck goes on in your head? I feel bad for you and especially those around you.

I would like to thank Dennis Earle Smith for his Informative, non-defensive response to the poster.
The second paragraph, with a listing of some of your interruptions, was helpful for me to get a glimpse of your life. I do not have the funds to employ a stockmaker so attach the wood to the metal as best I can. Because I have no talent, it has been a question to me as to the time required by those who are competent. The money involved is of no interest to me because I can not afford those services. Thank you Mr. Smith.

quote:

Thank you Mr. Smith.

An amateur, I've fashioned a couple of stocks, all but the checkering. I can say confidently that one of the skills of a good stockmaker is the design and shaping. A stock looks pretty simple, but it is comprised of myriad angles and contours. Getting it right separates the men from the boys. You are paying a good stockmaker for more than his time.

quote:

Originally posted by Brice:
An amateur, I've fashioned a couple of stocks, all but the checkering. I can say confidently that one of the skills of a good stockmaker is the design and shaping. A stock looks pretty simple, but it is comprised of myriad angles and contours. Getting it right separates the men from the boys. You are paying a good stockmaker for more than his time.

I believe I took all of that into consideration when I originally asked my question.

"How long does it take for an EXPERT stockmaker to make a stock from a blank?"

It's like asking "How high is up"

no it not.

quote:

You are paying a good stockmaker for more than his time.

BINGO!!!....end of discussion.

question wasn't what one pays a stockmaker for. Question was how long it takes for an expert stockmaker to make a stock from a blank up to the point where finishing would be started and up to the point where excessories would be added.

from the responses received it seems like about 16 - 60 hours.

Thank you one and all.

Lindy2,
Go to the ACGG website and get a list of it's 115 or so members. Send a mass e-mail to them with your question. Be sure to specify that it has to be perfectly inletted (no glass) and shaped from a square blank (no pantagraphed stocks accepted).
Tell them that you believe that it should take 18-60 hours.
Those that don't automatically delete your
e-mail will get a good laugh and then push delete.

I'm surprised how prickly some folks are about this question. I wonder if it has something to do about questioning their ethics, or skill, or perhaps efficiency. Or maybe they don't want people to know that they have a really good duplicator that does about 98% of the work and they spend five hours or so spotting and shaving to finalize the inletting. If I wanted to make a living as a stockmaker, that's what I'd try to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Vol717:
I'm surprised how prickly some folks are about this question. I wonder if it has something to do about questioning their ethics, or skill, or perhaps efficiency. Or maybe they don't want people to know that they have a really good duplicator that does about 98% of the work and they spend five hours or so spotting and shaving to finalize the inletting. If I wanted to make a living as a stockmaker, that's what I'd try to do.

So,, you figure "even a caveman could do it?".

I don't know about cavemen, but I think most anyone with reasonable patience could be adequate at it. I've made dozens of stocks over the years, but I've never worried about how long it took. Recently I bought an old Northstar single spindle duplicator to speed up my work on Highwall stocks for my own use. After using it, I can see with a really good CNC duplicator, stockmaking could be fairly fast. But I would have to first acquire some good stock patterns and program them in the CNC. Then I would acquire the ability to digitally scan a barreled action, and inlet that specific action into the stock profile of choice. But that is science and technology, for I am an engineer, not an artist. Then, to maintain the mystique of a handmade product, I would call my shop a studio, wear a funny hat, go by my first, middle and last names, keep the CNC hidden, and charge outrageous prices.

When you watch a true craftsman at a lot of skills it is amazing how easy they make it look. Most likely a stock maker with a lot of natural talent would turn out a superior product and in less time.

You walk into a singles bar: How long does it take to find the best lay of the night and how many drinks will it take?

Eschewing a duplicator in favor of hand made is akin to preferring a shovel over a backhoe.

quote:

Originally posted by Vol717:
Eschewing a duplicator in favor of hand made is akin to preferring a shovel over a backhoe.

Agreed.

Was the walnut tree cut down by axe, wedge and maul? or was it felled with a chainsaw. Was the log then pitsawn or milled with a band or circular saw? Where is the line drawn.

Some engravers have their work seen as less worthy because they use an airgraver instead of a burin and hammer.

Let's see a nice CNC stock. Add some machine or laser checkering and there you go. Add a spray finish no need for hand rubbed oil. Pretty darn close to a factory stock.