Hello all,

I brought this discussion over from the Classified Firearms Forum. This all started about 12 days ago when a forum member said he was looking for a "non-bubba" rifle in 35 Whelen caliber, where upon I offered to sell one of my most prized collectables, a Custom Mannlicher stocked 1951 Winchester Model 70 built by Leonard Mews. I posted my Mews rifle for sale in the Classifieds. Unfortunately, (for me) it sold in less than a day and left me without a 35 Whelen, but perhaps an excuse to buy another?



That led to the following discussions, and ultimate new acquisition.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunswizard: WANT TO BUY: .35 Whelen based on a 1903 Springfield or Pre'64 Winchester M/70, looking for professionaly 'smithed examples no bubba smithed examples .... Thanks.

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Originally posted by hikerbum: I beleive I saw a very nice one one Doug Turnbulls website recently. It’s a 1903 35 Whalen.

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Originally posted by Michael Robinson: The Springfield that Doug Turnbull has is low numbered. That bothers some people.

But it is beautiful. ‘03 Springfield .35 Whelen

And the price is right, at $1,500.

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Originally posted by Nick Adams: It is beautiful. But low-numbered Springfield receivers can still blow up, which is why folks avoid them.

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Originally posted by buckstix:

Hello Nick Adams,

In the history of the low-numbered Springfield receiver failures, there is much "miss-information" and undeserved negativity, and urban legends, regarding those low numbered Springfield rifles.

Some time ago there was a scientific study by Joseph L. Lyon, M.D., M.P.H. called: "Information on M1903 Receiver Failures - "

The study states that there had been 33 reported receiver failures of Springfield receivers in the low serial number range of 001 up to serial number 800,000. That accounts for about 4/1000th of 1 percent and none of those failures resulted in a death.

He went on to say ...

Risk of One Death per 100,000 population in a Single Year Caused By:

Riding a bicycle 100 miles;
Smoking 14 cigarettes;
Living 20 months with a smoker;
Traveling 1500 miles by automobile;
Traveling 10,000 miles by jet aircraft;

His conclusions; The problem of Springfield receiver failures was a rare event throughout the service years of the Springfield rifle despite statements to the contrary.

His study also indicated that the failure rate was variable by year. Of the 15 years between 1903 and the end of 1917, when the heat
treatment method was changed, there were no failures in five of the years of; (1908, 1909, 1910, 1912, 1915)

The complete study can be read here; http://webcache.googleusercont...=us&client=firefox-b

The Turnbull Springfield was produced in 1908, a year with no failures. I watched the Turnbull listing for over a week, with nobody seemingly wanting it. So, since I sold my Leonard Mews 35 Whelen, and still had lots of Whelen ammo, I decided to replace it with the Turnbull Springfield. Its now on its way to its new home in Wisconsin.

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Originally posted by NormanConquest: Turnbull does do excellent work. Post some pics. 'enquiring' minds want to know.

Hello NormanConquest,

Thanks for the reply.

I've posted some pictures. This Springfield was not a Turnbull restoration, rather it is one of several vintage custom rifles built at a "classic time" that are being sold by Doug Turnbull on consignment for the widow of the deceased owner. I'm hoping to learn more about its builder when I get it in hand some time next week. I still can't believe no one jumped on this. Based on the features described and the photos in the listing, it represented a "sure-thing" bargain. Features like; a custom contoured action in high polish deep blue finish, a custom hollow knob bolt handle, a custom AA Fancy grade French walnut stock with shadow out-lined cheek-piece, with a black ebony forend tip, with an early style "Fleurs & Ribbons" checkering pattern, with a Niedner style skeleton steel grip-cap with a smooth island, with a Niedner style skeleton curved steel butt-plate with a checkered island with a widow's peak inlet at the top, a custom Winchester style swing safety, a custom hinged floor-plate with inside trigger-guard release, a pair of recessed sling swivel mounts, a jeweled bolt with a jeweled extractor, a d&t receiver, a 24" medium weight commercial barrel in high polish deep blue finish chambered in 35 Whelen caliber, and a hand-tooled leather sling with Winchester Super-Grade sling swivels. And, Oh Yes, ... a 3x9x50mm Tasco World Class scope, in Weaver rings and bases. The scope will be sold and replaced with a vintage Lyman All American scope that I've squirreled away, waiting for a classic rifle.

I’ve never owned a Springfield but think they are very cool. Probably from reading Green Hills of Africa a dozen times. I’d love to have one. Very nice rifle in a caliber I am becoming more and more interested in.

Another bit of information. The United States Marine Corp NEVER removed their low number 03's from service until they were finally phased out in the late fifties /early sixties. Last year, I bought a well worn sporterized 03 that is from 1905. It wears a vintage Lyman Alaskan in Redfield mounts with the old skinny rings. The scope is still clear. It had a crumbling Hawkins pad on it that I replaced with a repro from Connecticut Shotgun. It also has a unique Herters muzzle break on it. I shoot it with mild handloads and recently some Federal 150 grain factory loads and it shoots very well. I ran the Federal loads over the Chrono and was amazed that they registered 2906 FPS. with zero pressure signs! This old gun has been many a hard mile and has been shot a lot before I got it, I have no fear of any catastrophic failure at this stage of its life.

That is a lot of rifle for $1500.

Interesting rifle. Looks like 1909 bottom metal and Mod 70 or tilden safety. Hopefully additional pictures when you get it in hand. Metal out of the stock would be extra nice.

Hello BaxterB,
Hello lee440,

Thanks for the reply.

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Originally posted by Colin Masters:
That is a lot of rifle for $1500.

Hello Colin Masters,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes indeed, a real bargain to be sure! Building a rifle today with all those Custom features would cost 3 times as much ... $4500 or more.

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
Interesting rifle. Looks like 1909 bottom metal and Mod 70 or tilden safety. Hopefully additional pictures when you get it in hand. Metal out of the stock would be extra nice.

Hello kda55,

Thanks for the reply.

I will definitely remove it from the stock and I will check for any markings that might indicate when and by whom it was built.

amazing

Well, I got the rifle today and have posted some pictures below. What a beauty! Not surprisingly, I found a Timney Trigger attached on the bottom of the receiver.

First thing I did was loose the Tasco Scope. I replaced it with a period Lyman 4x All American with Post & Cross-hair. I think it looks a lot better.



Here's the comparison; the rifle as received with the Tasco scope (top) and the rifle with the Lyman All American scope. (bottom)



Here's a couple of pictures of the Grip-Cap and Butt-Plate. You will see I also found it has a blank Sterling Silver Escutcheon, just waiting for my initials.






Here are a few pictures of the checkering. This exact style of checkering is shown and described on pages 46, 47, 48, in Monty Kennedy's book; "The Checkering and Carving of Gunstocks". It is labeled as the no. 8 pattern. There is also a picture on page 291 showing a rifle checkered by Jerry Fisher with this same pattern.



But, with all the GOOD, also comes some BAD .... A good gunsmith, is not necessarily a good speller.... "Whelen" is spelled wrong ... unless there is such a thing as "35 Whelan" cartridge... (I had to deactivate my spellchecker to type that.)



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And ........... here come the GOOD

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I removed the front scope base, and discovered that this rifle is not a "low numbered" Springfield after all - Its a "high-numbered" Rock Island Arsenal. This receiver is not only beyond the safe high-numbers double heat-treat era, its actually from the later, even higher quality, Nickel-Steel era. So much for all the worry about possible receiver failure of a low numbered Springfield. Turns out that just because it "looks" like a Springfield, doesn't mean it "is" one.
Yippee !

In the end, this turned out to be a much better deal than I had ever expected. I must be living a good life, to be blessed with such good luck.

Congrats.=, especially on it not being a Low Number Springfield!

Coincidentally, I am finally getting around to building myself a Springfield and have decided on the 35 Whelen as well.

I'm fairly certain that the 35 Whelen is one of the most misspelled cartridge names ever.

Here's one I once acquired:

I saw one stamped 35 Waylon at a gun show one time.

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Originally posted by craigster:
I saw one stamped 35 Waylon at a gun show one time.

I'm sure that was supposed to be a 35 Jennings.

nice rifle.

Isn't it supposed to be WAILIN.

You know, like wailin pains. It' puts the hurt on.

research on 1903 failures will show ammo a big issue if u have a low # and want rid of that bomb u may send them to me

Did whalers use Whalens ?

Hello z1r,
Hello craigster,
Hello gunmaker,
Hello katiesguns,

Thank you all for your reply.

I want to take a moment to give a shout-out to the seller of this rifle, that being Turnbull Restorations. I'm sure many of you have suffered the consequences of poor packaging. I've bought a lot of guns over the years, but Turnbull went the extra mile in protective shipping of this rifle.

The rifle was wrapped in paper, then put into a heavy multi-layer cotton sleeve gun case, which was then padded with bubble wrap, and then put into a large brand new foam lined hard case, that was slipped into a cardboard carton that had reinforced tape on every seam. You could have thrown this out of an airplane and it wouldn't have been damaged. Now that's what I call real professional packaging service.

No matter how it's spelled, you have a very nice Weighlin.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
No matter how it's spelled, you have a very nice Weighlin.

Hello craigster,

Thanks for the reply.

I can't wait until the snow melts and the road is open to our club's outdoor ranges. I need to find out if this rifle shoots as good as it looks.

Col. Whelen must be turning over in his grave over the grievous mis-spelling(s) of his name. How can a custom builder get such an important detail wrong????????????

I wood git that speling fixt ifn it wuz me.

And a low power, straight tube scope would look better. Finally, the pic of the cheekpiece looks awfully wide. Slimming that down looks as though it would prevent one from having to mash their face against the stock. Perhaps made for a very thinned faced hunter?

Doesn't matter how it's spelled, it is a very nice rifle!