quote:

Originally posted by Angus Morrison:
Stuart's working on my titanium 9.5x57 MS (.375 Rimless Nitro Express x 2 1/4 in my preferred parlance) that will be my new lightweight coastal bear guiding gun. I've had the other side of the experience where he and Jackie have been forthright, answer calls and emails, and send progress pictures. By no means saying anyone is wrong, all I can relate is my experience thus far, and I'm pleased.

Beautiful work Stuart, my barrel blank and reamer should be there any day.

-Angus

Yeah, they're good at all that stuff for the first few years. Just wait.

I have ordered one action from Satterlee. Took roughly two years longer than quoted. Still have the action as I had already moved on to a different project after waiting too long.

Happened into two more of his actions at prices to good to pass up. So now I have three in the white. I will say this his work is terrific if you can actually get it.

Then I have two complete rifle builds of his that I picked up second hand. One is a titanium gun and one is on a pre-64. Both of those builds are impeccable.

If he had what I wanted in stock I would buy it. If I needed to order it and cared at all about any sort of time frame, then no.

Thanks Mac, Happy to hear it.
Timan

https://www.facebook.com/Satte...9151898071/timeline/
Started this two years ago.
As always willing to help.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
1. 2009, post and an inventory action in the AR classifieds, $3,150 one satterlee action
2. "Trax" buys that action.
3. "Trax" has that action sent to James Anderson
4. "Trax" wants the smaller action.
5. The small action is two years out
6. Small action is not ready at two years
7. Two (2) wire transfers are made for refund
8. Both wires are turned back
9. Why is that?
10. "Trax" works at the bank the wires are turned from.
11. After "Traxes" refusal to accept a wire he'll wait for hs action.
12. "Trax" has been notified both e-Mail and PM within this forum his action is ready for him.
13. "Trax" has been publically notified of the completion of him rifle action.
14. As of today 10-6-2015 "Trax" has exactly 60 days to collect his property of one Satterlee Arms rifle action.
15. If this is not accomplished within the 60 day time frame by you Mr. "trax"
16. Rights of ownership of your rifle action will be permanently transferred to Satterlee Arms LLC.

Yes it is very straight forward. Trax's persistence is seemingly going to finally pay off. That is assuming that Satterlee really does have an action done for him. To re-cap: Satterlee is 4 YEARS LATE with Trax's action. It's ALL the customers fault. And, if the customer doesn't do exactly what and when Satterlee says, then he will loose the action.
Man, what great customer service!

quote:

To re-cap: Satterlee is 4 YEARS LATE with Trax's action.

1. The action buyer purchased was in inventory (not 4 years late).
2. Buyer purchased action and took delivery of it by having it sent to another gunmaker (presumably to have work done on it). Offer and acceptance. Contract consummated. Ownership transferred.
3. Buyer then decided he did not want the action after taking delivery of it. (offered to trade his action for a different action)
4. Unless contractually otherwise, seller has no obligation to trade back something that has been accepted by buyer.
5. Seller advised buyer that even if a trade could be accomplished he did not have in possession what buyer wanted to trade for. Might take two years, or even longer for short action to become available!
6. After action was returned to Seller it became a bailment situation, with the Bailee holding goods for the Bailor.
6. Bailor should have immediately taken delivery of his property.
7. Bailee, under no obligation whatsoever, offerd to buy bailor's action. !!!!! Bailor apparently refused sale.
8. Again, Bailor should immediately secure his property from Bailee.

Sounds like Satterlee shouldn't have agreed to swap out actions. But he did.

Then when he didn't keep his 2 year old timeline he offered a refund, Trax apparently didn't want the refund after waiting 2 years but instead the action promised.

Satterlee stretched that promise out another 4 years.
It obviously wasn't a priority to keep his past and very tardy agreement, but developing and introducing new products was.

Here is Trax's action 7x57 Small ring with a titanium follower function complete ready to roll.

Here's a neat little tid bit I've decided to pass along.
In the fall of 2010 I sent Shootaways 458 Lott barreled action to Martini for stocking.
It's 5 years later is it done? No.
Not breaking any production records with that one either.
Do double standards exist in this industry?
Maybe...........

I can't wait for Ralf to send me a pic of what the rifle is starting to look like.I think I might take this Lott out hunting for cape buff next time I go.I like bolts as much as doubles.

quote:

Trax's persistence is seemingly going to finally pay off.

No it isn't. Trax is going to do his usual Obama thing and renig again and not take delivery anywhere that he can. Then he will again trash someone for never sending his action. It is NEVER Trax's fault. Stuart's problem is that he should have just said the original sale was final (which Trax would have trashed him for) and been done with this slimeball. Mark my words that is exactly what Trax will do. We will see in 58 days.

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:

quote:

Then I have two complete rifle builds of his that I picked up second hand. One is a titanium gun and one is on a pre-64. Both of those builds are impeccable.

It would be fun to see some photos of that impeccable work if you would care to show them.

Need to take some photos of the Wood stocked Pre-64

Here is the original owners pics of the titanium when it was still in the white.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...php/topics/2219548/1

This is after it was coated with Balzer Finish.
Top Rifle
http://www.satterleearms.com/mountain_rifle.htm

Anything good takes time.

Said it before and I'll say it again, the Internet and the speed with which frustration snowballs into threads and then complete opinions on a company isn't necessarily a good thing.

I have no doubt I'll be taking delivery of my titanium and going back to this thread to post the result. I've been screwed before (one of the guys scammed on the full cost of a Rhino hunt this year) and I have a good sense of that flavour.

Stuart is NOT one of those guys, I can call him and have a conversation and he's straight up. No, a one man shop isn't fast, I make rifle stocks myself and know the deal. There's an evolution occurring towards quicker gratification. The Internet can also twist reasonable people's expectations.

I think people on both sides are good, Stuart and anyone disgruntled. Communication and expectations could like be improved all around, and both sides are undoubtably great people. It's a bloody shame how things can spiral between two good parties, frankly, and I don't believe message boards help.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:

quote:

Then I have two complete rifle builds of his that I picked up second hand. One is a titanium gun and one is on a pre-64. Both of those builds are impeccable.

It would be fun to see some photos of that impeccable work if you would care to show them.

Need to take some photos of the Wood stocked Pre-64

Here is the original owners pics of the titanium when it was still in the white.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...php/topics/2219548/1

This is after it was coated with Balzer Finish.
Top Rifle
http://www.satterleearms.com/mountain_rifle.htm

Holy Schit! That's beautiful!

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
1. 2009, post and an inventory action in the AR classifieds, $3,150 one satterlee action
2. "Trax" buys that action.
3. "Trax" has that action sent to James Anderson
4. "Trax" wants the smaller action.
5. The small action is two years out
6. Small action is not ready at two years
7. Two (2) wire transfers are made for refund
8. Both wires are turned back
9. Why is that?
10. "Trax" works at the bank the wires are turned from.
11. After "Traxes" refusal to accept a wire he'll wait for hs action.
12. "Trax" has been notified both e-Mail and PM within this forum his action is ready for him.
13. "Trax" has been publically notified of the completion of him rifle action.
14. As of today 10-6-2015 "Trax" has exactly 60 days to collect his property of one Satterlee Arms rifle action.
15. If this is not accomplished within the 60 day time frame by you Mr. "trax"
16. Rights of ownership of your rifle action will be permanently transferred to Satterlee Arms LLC.

We can only go by what has been posted on this forum.
Sept 16th: Timan (Satterlee) decides to promote his complete rifles on this forum.
Sept. 19th: Trax complains that he has still not received an action that he ordered and paid for in 2009. (The previous Satterlee thread should be required reading.)
Oct. 6th: Timan posts the order of events in his dealings with Trax. They are listed above.
Items 1 thru 3: Trax bought and received an action with cash. "Contract Consummated".
Items 4 thru 6: Let's "assume" that Lindy2 is correct and a deal was made in which Timan receives the first action back and Trax would receive a short action in 2 years.
The first action was not given to Timan "temporarily" and is therefore NOT a "bailment situation". It was given to Timan as a payment of "goods or property in lieu of cash".
Timan says he failed to deliver after 2 years.
Items 7 thru 11: Who knows...but let's assume, after all, this is the internet...Trax wanted the action not the money. Now, Trax has assumed some of the responsibility for the long time frame.
Items 12 thru 16: Timan has Trax's action ready and DEMANDS that he "collect" it within 60 days or loose it.

By Timan's own order of events, he is FOUR YEARS LATE on HIS delivery quote. This "Satterlee Thread" (and the last one)is textbook on how NOT to treat customers. Even now he is trying to deflect his own short comings onto another gunmaker. I don't think anyone would say Satterlee does poor work. Let me tone it down and just say he is "Ethically Challenged".

History is great, but we are here today,and Trax should be hearing....Tic, toc, tic, toc...57 days to claim his goods. Send them back to Mr. Anderson if he wants them, or wherever he can. I'm still betting he does nothing but whine.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:

4. "Trax" wants the smaller action.
5. The small action is two years out

Timan you need to stop your habit of lying.
There was no mention of two yrs or the 6+ yrs.

Before I order the Intermediate in Aug.2009, I specifically asked you time frame for delivery in a PM.

this was your response:

quote:

Timan
Posted 29 July 2009 15:34 Hide Post
Trax,
Currently I have one other steel intermediate to be finished March of 2010. It's alway more efficient to finish two to four.

I still need to make bolts, bottom metal, and safetys.

Mid January to End March.

Stuart

This evidence shows you have given false account to AR members of our agreement
and that you also give false misleading delivery dates to paying customers,.... as usual your credibility is down the drain....

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:

10. "Trax" works at the bank the wires are turned from.

11. After "Traxes" refusal to accept a wire he'll wait for hs action.

I have never worked in a bank in my whole life, but your saying I am a bank employee who refused a WIRE that contains money owing me?

where do you come with such desperate false foolish nonsense?

This is the bank address I sent you by PM for the wire:



Trax
Posted 24 September 2012 08:04 Hide Post
ANZ bank.
5/833 Collins St
Docklands, Victoria 3008.
Australia


However I have Duane Wiebe saying this after you showed him documents....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:

I'm going to repect Stuart's request to NOT post copies of documents. But...take my word for it,
I have seen these copies and refund was attempted but was somehow "refused" at a NSW bank in Australia.[QUOTE]

Im taking Duanes word for it that the document shows the bank that refused the wire transfer was a NSW bank,

However my bank address I provided you, is in another completely different state of, VICTORIA.

So please don't falsely accuse TRAX of refusing the wire,
your own documents show the wire wrongly arrived in NSW somewhere
Its impossible for myself or my Victoria location bank to refuse something that NEVER actually arrived.

[and for the record] I sent PM explaining the above to Satterlee in March 2013.
TO this day no response from him.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug W:
Sounds like Satterlee shouldn't have agreed to swap out actions. But he did.

wHy do you say that?

Satterlee was able to quickly sell that new unused action on to his own financial benefit,
and also keep my money to build the new intermediate action order.

sounds like a WIN - WIN for Satterlee.

iT wasn't my idea to swap I was just going to sell the action separately,
it was actually a Satterlee suggestion to do a swap.

quote:

Timan
Posted 29 July 2009 05:06 Hide Post
How soon do you want the intermediate?

Would you entertain the idea of swapping it straight back.

Stuart

Are you going to DO something about it now, or just whine?????? You can transfer the action anywhere you like.

Tick toc, tick toc. 45 days. Put up or shut up.

As illogical as I find Trax in his political statements, I find it very hard to believe he wouldn't want his money or action; and this after 5 years?

Quite frankly I'd be much more inclined to do business with Trax than anyone who takes 5 year,s or for that matter, anyone siding with that business pro forma.

I prefer Griffin & Howe, never had this problem in approximately 10 guns with them. But we all know how hard it is to speak for others, so you must have been speaking for yourself.

He doesn't want the money or the action. He just wants to piss and moan. Tick toc. He doesn't have the brains to prove me wrong. Stupid part is that it is his for the taking and I guarantee you he will do exactly what Obamatrax always does........NOTHING.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan: Posted 13 February 2008 20:31
Deposits have been returned, ceritified priority mail.
This business is far from over. Some here think this is my ruin. I see it as starting point for better customer service.
We are getting a full fourth axis for our machining center which will allow faster production of the bolt and receiver.
All that feel wronged here please accept my apologies.
I will be fucusing my attention to timely high quality deliveries.
from now on my goal is a Great gun on time.
Sincerly
Stuart Satterlee

Better Customer service and on time deliveries?

For my 2009 order you gave a completion time around 6 months , but have taken over 6 yrs to do the job.

You call that an improvement from your previous screw ups...??

quote:

Originally posted by Timan: posted 06 October 2015 12:02

14. As of today 10-6-2015 "Trax" has exactly 60 days to collect his property of one Satterlee Arms rifle action.
15. If this is not accomplished within the 60 day time frame by you Mr. "trax"
16. Rights of ownership of your rifle action will be permanently transferred to Satterlee Arms LLC.

lets look at the Satterlee written policy:

Terms: A 50% deposit is due with all rifle, action or custom parts orders. Deposits are contractual commitments and are non-refundable.
The balance of payment is due when the work or product is complete. Products or services not paid in full within 60-days of notification
of completion will be deemed abandoned, and all deposits and rights of ownership will be surrendered to Satterlee Arms.


The Satterlee policy states jobs not paid in full are surrendered.
My order was paid in full 2009....The Satterlee policy says nothing about customers forfeiting payed up orders within 60 days.

but Satterlee is now officially threatening to enforce a hidden 60 day business term of trade on his customer,
thats not disclosed in his official business policy.

iTs just more deceit and one dishonest thing after another when dealing with Satterlee.

We all get it. You think he is a complete piece of shit. I am not defending him at all, you can read my post above. But when he does eventually finish a product it is very nice. So I am not sure why you don't just forward him an FFL and have the action he says he has ready for you? You will have it in your hand in a week. You have already paid for it. I get that you are probably so pissed off that you would never use it on a custom build but it should be pretty easy to unload for $3K.

If it were me I would just be done with it.

Actually you were specific, and you did make your point, being that if screwed around for 6 years was a problem go to an honest merchant such as K Mart. While I find it interesting you suggest they adhere to higher standards than yourself or Satterlee, I have no reason to doubt you. after all, you should know.

Wow, that was convoluted.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:
We all get it. You think he is a complete piece of shit. I am not defending him at all, you can read my post above. But when he does eventually finish a product it is very nice. So I am not sure why you don't just forward him an FFL and have the action he says he has ready for you? You will have it in your hand in a week. You have already paid for it. I get that you are probably so pissed off that you would never use it on a custom build but it should be pretty easy to unload for $3K.

If it were me I would just be done with it.

Satterlee is dishonestly threatening a customer with something not in the original contract terms & conditions
and I should just go along with it?.....NO CHANCE.

Theres is nothing in my orig. contract with Satterlee Arms or in the Satterlee Arms written policy,
that says I need to retrieve my fully settled goods in 60 days or forfeit them.

Satterlee just never learns and continues to behave in his typical unscrupulous underhanded way that is assured
to bring his business name even further down.

.

Set the delay aside since that is water under the bridge, do I have this right, the action is paid for, the action is complete and the customer is now refusing to take delivery of the action? What an idiot, but I already knew that.

Im waiting for Satterlee to show the forum the agreed contract ,or, written Satterlee Arms policy
that states the customer is required to collect fully settled goods within 60 days or forfeit them.

below is the Satterlee policy I read in 2009, and its exactly the same one on the current Satterlee website:


Terms: A 50% deposit is due with all rifle, action or custom parts orders. Deposits are contractual commitments and are non-refundable.
The balance of payment is due when the work or product is complete. Products or services not paid in full within 60-days of notification
of completion will be deemed abandoned, and all deposits and rights of ownership will be surrendered to Satterlee Arms.

Trax,
How can I help you with this situation at this point.
Stuart Satterlee

Satterlee should have asked that question to me before issuing his offical stance.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan: posted 06 October 2015 12:02

14. As of today 10-6-2015 "Trax" has exactly 60 days to collect his property of one Satterlee Arms rifle action.
15. If this is not accomplished within the 60 day time frame by you Mr. "trax"
16. Rights of ownership of your rifle action will be permanently transferred to Satterlee Arms LLC.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Satterlee should have asked that question to me before issuing his offical stance.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan: posted 06 October 2015 12:02

14. As of today 10-6-2015 "Trax" has exactly 60 days to collect his property of one Satterlee Arms rifle action.
15. If this is not accomplished within the 60 day time frame by you Mr. "trax"
16. Rights of ownership of your rifle action will be permanently transferred to Satterlee Arms LLC.

I think you are getting more enjoyment from whining than receiving product.

The funniest most bizarre thing I've read on AR is when Satterlee screwed a whole list of good people around on AR,
and his wife then came onboard to say Stuart was the 'hard done by' victim
...


When I contacted Stuart to discuss the issue of the well overdue action,
his wife replied to me in a long abusive PM say its all my fault
...


Stuart Satterlee himself has the hide to deflect the blame of his own short comings to Ralf Martini in Canada
...

So what are you going to DO about getting your action? Oh wait, we all know........NOTHING. You are giving Aussies a bad image. And just so you know, in America the 60 day bailment does not have to be written in a contract. It is the law.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
You are giving Aussies a bad image.

Satterlee lazily had a 6 month pre-payed job on his bench for over 6 years,
lied, deceived and unjustly slandered his customer in that time, has breeched the terms of our original contract,
and now threatens 60 days to collect or the customer forfeits.

but you make no mention of the damage Satterlee does to the image of American gunsmiths

..BRAVO!

Mr. Trax,

Is Mr. Satterlee refusing to ship the action to you?
Just curious and not taking a side.
Matt

Matt, I know I am not Stuart, but the answer to that is no. It is available for anywhere it can be shipped. Obamatrax would rather just do nothing and bitch.

quote:

Trax,
How can I help you with this situation at this point.
Stuart Satterlee

Just have him ship you the fucking action and be done with it. ??? This is madness. Or better yet what is the specific details on it and I'll buy it from you.