It has been my perception when looking at custom rifles that those made with the Serbian Zastava Arms made actions do not command a premium compared to a 1909, M70, G33/40, etc. (Whether marked Whitworth, Interarms, etc) So, from a custom gunmakers point of view, are these actions significantly of lower quality? Is the bottom metal undesirable? Is it more of a stigma? I would also be curious as to what mauser actions you (the gunmaker) would prefer to start with when using donor/surplus actions. I am assuming that not everyone is lucky enough to start with something made by GMA, Satterlee, Prechtl and so on. Hoping that I do not get crucified for asking a stupid question.

As a "poor" I'd welcome some custom gunmakers answers to your question. :

Sure hope they speak positively about the Zastavas.

That way, as my betters are dining on steak at the country club amid discussion of their custom rifles, I'd be able to gobble my 1 dollar menu McDonalds burger without shame about my Zastava rifles .

I have two custom rifles that started as Zastava. I am very happy with both and they both shoot!

As a customer, not the builder I have the impression that the Zastava action is no more or less than a small piece of the puzzle. Take the safety and trigger off, throw them away. Replace with aftermarket. Replace the bolt handle, get the action to feed for the cartridge build. New barrel and at a minimum work over the stock with a new pad, bedding and crossbolts. With my third rifle I'll ask for the checkering to be fixed.
So, it's a Mauser action, but it's had more work done than an aging Hollywood actress.

I have one semi custom rifle built on an Interarms MK X and it turned out great. It’s in 275 Rigby AI.

Certain actions, resale value and “name” gunsmiths make no matter to me as I rarely get rid of a rifle and never a custom I had built. If the smith I choose can do the work I need done how I want it done (I always take their advice if they tell
Me
Something. Is not a good idea)

Tom is building a 275 Rigby on my Interarms action as we speak. While not a $2000 custom rifle, I know it will be a quality made “custom” rifle for me.

Think about those war time production rifles being made 80+ years ago and compare it to todays manufacturing processes.

I own several Zastava based rifles, they are my truck guns. Nothing wrong with the actions at all, they are good hunting rifles. But I have too many vintage German and Belgium actions that I would use for a true custom build.

The gunsmith cost will be the same to build a custom rifle on a Zastava as it would on a German Mauser, but the resulting rifle will be worth considerably less. Understand that the rifle will work just as well, it just won't be as valuable. Your money, your choice.

Whatever one invests in today will at some point in time be for sale. I had a friend who invested $1500 or more in building a rifle based on the WW2 Japanese action and when time came to sell was shocked to find out that $400 was maximum it would bring. I have nothing against the Mark X, but will never bring the price that more preferred action custom would bring. So, you pays your money and you takes your choice.

A noted gunsmith I knew sought out post-64 push feed Model 70 actions for his rifles that cost near $6K. He couldn't understand the reluctance in the market to pay that much. Perception is a big part of "value".

Mk X actions are fine and are far better inn terms of metallurgy than most of the ones some guys worship. Might need a bit of polishing and truing, but you are going to do that anyway. Bead blast them to remove the high polish.
As for push feed Model 70s; I much prefer them; they are smoother feeding. Don't lose sight of why Mauser invented the claw extractor in the first place.
Anyway, full custom rifles are always money losers regardless of what action they are built on. I see it all the time; older customs, cost adjusted for inflation, rarely if ever, break even. (But the Jap example is an outlier)
Mk X, and Herters J9s, are a good place to start for most.

surface grind the action, custom trigger, 3 pos safety,Talley QD rings and bases, I like Lothar Walther barrels, rust blue, proper bottom metal in some cases or modified in others, barrel band swivel, rear sight and front sight, control feed, push feed ruins resale value on a full custom rifle..Mark X is a decent foundation. IMO its cheaper to start with a pre 64 mod 70, but that's a personal preference. Its a cornucopia of personal options, but keep an eye on resale value is good advise..

I feel like I am hearing that it is a good action and perhaps better than some that "guys worship" but there is a perception issue with them. I appreciate all the feedback.

I don't know if they refined them, but real happy with the 458 WM Whitworth I have (they used the Mark X). Just added a proper swing safety and drop magazine for 4 down.

What is a pre 64 Model 70 action worth? This is definitely one of those that some worship, that isn't really anything special. Except that they don't make them any more; that's it.
I have a pre 64 action for sale.

I have a Brno ZKK and a MkX here now; the Interarms is FAR smoother and easier to operate. The Brno bolt is like it was made in come communist sweat shop by guys making two Korunas a day. Oh, wait, it was!
Come over and see.

Stigma is the word. My Interarms 98's feed like buttah and the machine work is quite acceptable unlike some of the military actions I've seen over the years. But, mine were built on a brand new action and I'm not a 'smith. Just some guy with a little experience.

I like that word.

As a strictly amateur gunsmith, I have found the Mark X and Mark X Mini Mauser to be good actions to learn on. I can build a safe, accurate rifle on a budget. I may never recover my investment, but I'm okay with that. If I was paying someone else to build a rifle of a lifetime, I might base it on something else.

Ok, so I am guilty of worshipping the pre-64 as well as the Oberndorf, 1909, etc. I like the look of a custom built on a military mauser action with the thumb cut. I have a nice stick of walnut tucked away waiting for an action. A 7x57 with a quarter rib and sights, pancake cheek piece, claw mounts, Oberndorf bolt handle, barrel band sling swivel...the shape of the stock will have to be just right. I may just keep gathering parts. Easier to spend a little here and a little there. Kids in school keep the wallet thin but they come first.

I am surprised to see that the H ring vs C ring issue has not come up in this discussion.

Because it is totally irrelevant.

It seems like I read the Joe Smithson recently built a couple of his exquisite rifles using MKX actions.

I will wager that in a blindfolded test none of us could tell an Interarms properly done up from an other, similar 98.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
I will wager that in a blindfolded test none of us could tell an Interarms properly done up from an other, similar 98.

Depends if I could take the bolt out blindfolded and examine. It has different timing on the bolt body where it mates with the cocking piece/bolt shroud (I'm probably describing this wrong)

The Mark X regular and Mini Mauser actions are better than most older 98 Mauser designs. Speed lock on the firing pin and modern metals make for a fine custom rifle.

I made changes to these actions back in 1985. The trigger and bolt shroud can be fitted up with the regular 98 style and add a safety to block the firing pin in two position. My last Mini Mauser is written up in the article of (Stockmaker Show and Tell) back in 2010. I chose the 204 Ruger shell for maximum range for PD carry rifle weighs in at 8 lbs with scope. I had a Conjar single set trigger for a 98 that I fitted up to the Mini Mauser. This choice of caliber for my own use will group .312 @ 100 yds.

I know you can't make a very good show at the Country Club telling people about your Mark X Custom built hunting rifle. They want to hear about your Weatherby making 600 yrd shot on elk.

Just a few thoughts.

Les Brooks

WHAtT???!!!
Different bolt shroud timing? NO it isn't; MK Xs are 98 Mausers in every way, and the bolt should is 100% the same thread. And just to prove to myself that I wasn't getting a soft brain (I might still be) and forgot it, I literally just checked two of them and they fitted perecttly. SAME.

My observaion: I've seen two cocking pieces on the Mark actually BREAK???? Seems to be a casting. or maybe just britle

If you examibne the lower locking recess on a 375, version, the meterial removed is kind of eyebrow raising...Never heard of a failure, though.

The Mini? Personally do not hold them in high regard. Nicely scaled but that's about it.

I have a question, Can you surface grind, clean-up the top and sides of a Mark X to get rid of all the above the woodline markings? I have a couple of English/Mauser rifles that have no original german markings above the wood, but of course, lots of British proofs up top. I believe they are termed"scrubbed" military actions. Is this feasible with the Mark X and has anyone actually done it? How much would it cost?

Not sure which action takes home the prize for crappy machine work.
Pre64 M70
or
MarkX

Can they be used to build a nice rifle? Yes, they just take more work. Meaning $$$$

Don't say that too loud; the pre 64 Model 70 Worshipers will have a coronary. And look at the Winchester made M1 Garands; they ran their tooling into the ground and continued to use it; rough machine marks all over.
The MK X is not that bad. Definitely better than a WW2 Kar98k.

Here is a Zastava; the MK X are made there. Note the terrible machine work and polishing.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
My observaion: I've seen two cocking pieces on the Mark actually BREAK???? Seems to be a casting. or maybe just britle

If you examibne the lower locking recess on a 375, version, the meterial removed is kind of eyebrow raising...Never heard of a failure, though.

The Mini? Personally do not hold them in high regard. Nicely scaled but that's about it.

Have you looked at the lower locking recess on a pre64 M70 that has been opened up at the factory for the 375 length cartridges? That will raise your eyebrow too.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
WHAtT???!!!
Different bolt shroud timing? NO it isn't; MK Xs are 98 Mausers in every way, and the bolt should is 100% the same thread. And just to prove to myself that I wasn't getting a soft brain (I might still be) and forgot it, I literally just checked two of them and they fitted perecttly. SAME.

I'll post a comparison pic this weekend. Maybe I have an oddball Interarm Mark X. Definitely are different at the back end of the bolt body. Bolts are interchangeable between the different rifles, no issues there.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Here is a Zastava; the MK X are made there. Note the terrible machine work and polishing.

Nothing like leaning HARD on a buffing wheel!
Wish I had a macro lens for my camera and took several pics of the machine work on various actions that isn't buffed like a __________ _________ ______. below the wood line.

NOBODY can hold a candle to the quality control that Mauser had building military contract rifles for most of the civilized world.

Does it matter to most people? No.

Even the FN actions had second rate machine work compared to the Military contract Mausers made in Germany. I put FNs on par with the MarkX.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Here is a Zastava; the MK X are made there. Note the terrible machine work and polishing.

That must be an early one.

Below the wood line? Here are two more.

Some of that nice German Quality here;

And a VK98; this one doesn't count. I actually think that the Czech quality was most uniform. I have about 200 of these things here. I'll take more pictures.

you've got too many to choose from.

How about some pics of the bolt raceway and buttress threads on the Yugo? Bolt shrouds from hell.

Wilco. Which Yugo? There are three up there.
Manana.

I had a guy tell me the Mark X receivers and bolts where made from 4140. Has anybody else ever heard of this.