Who is the best outfit to send a Mauser action for heat treatment? Seems like there used to be one company that everyone preferred, but they stopped providing the service.

I have a 98 Reciever and Bolt that needs to be treated. Is there a hardness number that everyone prefers ? Action slightly higher than bolt or other way around ?

Thanks!

There is only one I know of, and use; Blanchards.
You have to specify what you want them to do; I tell them to make it RC35-40 with a case depth of .010-.015.
I never send bolts; they are always fine. Receivers are always softer than bolts. One receiver costs about $150. But additional ones are cheap, so best to send at least 3-5 at a time.
What make and year is yours? Why do you think the bolt needs hardening?

1909 Argentine action. Front ring surface ground, charging hump removed, drilled and tapped before I ever bought it.

After I purchased the action it was sent to a so called "Smith" who did a poor job welding on a new bolt handle, and an absolute hack job grinding a bolt notch in the reciever.

Sent the action out to skilled Gunmaker who welded on a much nicer bolt handle and welded up some of the hack job bolt notch in the reciever.

So the action and bolt have been worked over a good bit. Will be chambered for 30-06. I would feel better if they were heat treated.

Thanks.

Welding on the rear of the receiver does not hurt anything. However, some 09s are soft and will set back lugs on a 30-06. . It's not the outside that is important.
As for the bolt, the lugs are not harmed by welding on a handle, but the cocking cam might be/is, softened; those are easily hardened without cooking the entire bolt.
It's yours, of course, but I don't send bolts; I don't think they can improve factory hardening in the lug area.

quote:

Originally posted by K W Johnston:
1909 Argentine action. Front ring surface ground, charging hump removed, drilled and tapped before I ever bought it.

After I purchased the action it was sent to a so called "Smith" who did a poor job welding on a new bolt handle, and an absolute hack job grinding a bolt notch in the reciever.

Sent the action out to skilled Gunmaker who welded on a much nicer bolt handle and welded up some of the hack job bolt notch in the reciever.

So the action and bolt have been worked over a good bit. Will be chambered for 30-06. I would feel better if they were heat treated.

Thanks.

I agree with Tom. Remember that they are case hardening it, not heat treat.

My position has always been that, if you're going to go through the trouble and expense of building a custom rifle, spend the extra money and send it out to Blanchards. If nothing else, for a few hundred bucks you get peace of mind.

If you do send it, be very specific with your instructions as to hardness, depth, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:
My position has always been that, if you're going to go through the trouble and expense of building a custom rifle, spend the extra money and send it out to Blanchards. If nothing else, for a few hundred bucks you get peace of mind.

If you do send it, be very specific with your instructions as to hardness, depth, etc.

Much better to use a modern action Ruger, Winchester, Remington ect ect.

There is no need to mess with all the other things one has to to do a sub standard action like the older Mausers.

1st, inspection of the locking lug seats in the receiver is necessary. If seat damage is evident you will want to get the seats reconditioned prior getting it carburized, (case hardened)

DWM 1908 and 1909 receivers almost always need reconditioning prior to case hardening. It's rare to find DWM receivers that aren't set back and or just worn out in critical areas like the locking lug seats.

To recondition the receiver seats I set the receiver up in a Gre-Tan 8 screw cat head and do a full dial in over a 12 inch precision ground range rod, it's a lathe set up of course.
I use a solid carbide tooling and recut the lug seats, the seats generally clean up inside of .010 from initial touch off the last 3 that i did back in October took .007 to clean up and have a nice perfect surface.
After the Lathe work I lap the bolt very lightly to its newly conditioned lug seats with 400gt lapping compound, I then clean the lapping compound out with Lacquer thinner and smoke up back of the locking lugs of the bolt and cycle the bolt over the seats a few times, you would be amazed at how nice the contact is on the bolt lugs, we're talking maximum possible contact.

Do the rest of your work, drill and tap or magnum conversion. I also do all my polish work both inside and outside before re-carb. this greatly reduces repolish time after re-carb.

I go with 42 HRC and .015 to .020 on the case thickness.

Blanchard Metal Processing Co.
Salt Lake City UT
84126
801-972-5590

Post re-carb. I do an additional very light lapping of the bolt lugs to their seats to ensure full contact with the seats is still present prior to barrel installation. So far I have found distortion of the receiver to be minimal.

Rifles built with disregard to lug seat condition that have set back and are out of head space can be reconditioned. Receiver lug seat reconditioning and re-carb of the receiver in addition to setting the barrel back 1/8 to 1/4 turn and rechamber gets them back in service for good. Rifles with open sights will be more expensive to recondition do to sight indexing back to TDC.

I've used these processes on calibers across the spectrum to 404 Jeffery with success.

Sure, other cheaper action alternatives exist, but it's not a Mauser. I've made Mausers from bar stock nearly 200 actions so far it's taken what seems like a lifetime, in retrospect it's been over 1/3 of my life thus far, from this I've learned a great deal. Like every education has a price, and the self taught ones are by far the most expensive and the most valuable.
Not until you've executed every single machining process it takes in its entirety to produce an M98 action that functions at a very high level of quality and reliability will you realize what a cheap and inexpensive gift it is to start with an 09 that simply needs the seats re-conditioned and a good re-carb, oh my god i'm laughing my ass off as type this.
It's a friggin drop in a 55 gallon barrel on the grand scheme of things as it relates to gun making as near as i can tell. But then we all have our weaknesses and occasionally get stricken with the idea that Model 70 is as good, HA...dream on.

Well presented, Timan...Many ...just can't seem to grasp that any improvement to a system 98 is a step backward.

Timan, super educational to us gun cranks that don't know s**t about what it takes to build them. Thank you for the insight.

Thank you for the helpful post Mr. Satterlee. I really appreciate your taking the time to give such detailed advice.

Duane, your comment (as usual) is spot on!

I've made contact with Blanchard's and they have emailed me shipping instructions for the action. They were very nice folks to talk with on the phone as well.

quote:

There is no need to mess with all the other things one has to to do a sub standard action like the older Mausers.

Who would have thought? Comedy in the gunsmithing forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
1st, inspection of the locking lug seats in the receiver is necessary. If seat damage is evident you will want to get the seats reconditioned prior getting it carburized, (case hardened)

DWM 1908 and 1909 receivers almost always need reconditioning prior to case hardening. It's rare to find DWM receivers that aren't set back and or just worn out in critical areas like the locking lug seats.

Based on my own metallurgical research I am openly skeptical of using pre WW1 metal quality, and not particularly certain about steel quality prior to WW2. I have found bits and pieces of information that indicate those plain carbon steels used in Mauser actions have a lot of unwanted residual elements, such as Cu, Cr, Ni, MN, Mo, Al all non oxidizing contaminants that could not, and were not removed from steel in that period. These unwanted contaminants unpredictably weaken steel.

This was the material composition specification for Mauser receivers:


Carbon LT 0.40%
Manganese LT 0.90%
Copper LT 0.18%
Silicon LT 0.30%
Phosphorous LT 0.04%
Sulphur LT 0.06%


This is from page 103 Rifle & Carbine 98: M98 Firearms of the German Army from 1898 to 1918 Dieter Storz


I believe copper was there to make the steel easy to machine, or it was something they could not get rid of, but specified an upper limit. Copper is an undesired element in steel.

This is a post showing percentages of unwanted crap in period steels.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1076061?r=8481020161

quote:

Okay, here we go again. Sorry, I'm paraphrasing Duane Wiebe.

The 1996 "core" assay of a generic WW-I era 1898 Mauser receiver:

Carbon: 0.29%
Sulfur: 0.022%
Phosphorus: 0.019%
Manganese: 0.45%
Silicon: 0.16%
Nickel: 0.05%
Chromium 0.02%
Molybdenum: <0.01% (trace)
Vanadium <0.01% (trace)
Copper 0.17%
Columbium: <0.01% (trace)

The 1996 "core" assay of a WW-I era 1898 Mauser bolt:

Carbon: 0.18%
Sulfur: 0.018%
Phosphorus: 0.014%
Manganese: 0.76%
Silicon: 0.23%
Nickel: 0.29%
Chromium: 0.06%
Molybdenum: <0.01% (trace)
Copper 0.15%
Aluminum: 0.02%

All those elements, that were not in the material spec, are crap that should not be there. So, given the relative poor quality of WW1 period steels, how well long do receiver surfaces re carbonized last? All a carbuization process does is add carbon to the surface, which should make the surface hard and more wear resistance. But that surface is only to 0.015 to 0.020 thick. The base material stays the same crap it was when it was poured out of the ladle.

All those elements, that were not in the material spec, are crap that should not be there. So, given the relative poor quality of WW1 period steels, how well long do receiver surfaces re carbonized last? All a carbuization process does is add carbon to the surface, which should make the surface hard and more wear resistance. But that surface is only to 0.015 to 0.020 thick. The base material stays the same crap it was when it was poured out of the ladle.

So you've been there done that and know this crap Mauser steel just won't cut it. right? on all the Mausers you've built.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
All those elements, that were not in the material spec, are crap that should not be there. So, given the relative poor quality of WW1 period steels, how well long do receiver surfaces re carbonized last? All a carbuization process does is add carbon to the surface, which should make the surface hard and more wear resistance. But that surface is only to 0.015 to 0.020 thick. The base material stays the same crap it was when it was poured out of the ladle.

So you've been there done that and know this crap Mauser steel just won't cut it. right? on all the Mausers you've built.

I have a surprising number of Mausers. I won't use one of those vintage Mausers in an application where the pressure of the cartridge is higher than the original service cartridge. If you research this, you will find WW1 era Mausers, 7mm or 8mm were operating at an average of 3000 atmospheres, or 43,000 CUP During WW2 the load is running about 46,000 CUP.

As the gunsmith noted, the typical pre WW1 receiver he handles has receiver seat setback.

When I had my gunsmith build a 35 Whelen using a Mauser action, I used this action







It is made of modern materials. I forget the alloy, but it was described as an alloy receiver, which means its through hardness will be consistent, instead of those early shallow hardening plain carbon steels. Also, at a minimum, the yield strength will be 25%, but probably is 50% higher, and the fatigue lifetime will be much better.

You know, the shooting community thinks the Kaiser had a cell phone. He was lucky to have electricity. It is more probable he had gas lights, coal stoves, and a privy out the back. It is unlikely he had running water, but, never know, it was Germany, and they were fairly forward leaning for the era. But that means nothing in terms of technology even 20 years later.


Cutting edge technology






President's McKinley's inauguration carriage. Horse drawn carriage



Cool period horse drawn fire pumper. The firemen made a fire under the boiler, that created steam to run a water pump. Cities did not necessarily have fire hydrants, so the firemen would run hoses to rivers, lakes, ponds for a water supply.



1910 Studebaker Dump Wagon. Horse drawn of course.


Moderns would know that a 1G flip phone is hopelessly obsolete and yet they earnstly believe the technology of 130 years ago is equal to now. Helping to prove that denial and delusions are intrinsic to the human condition.

About halfway down the Fabrication Protocol page, “The most used action”

https://www.dorleac-dorleac.co...ur-protocol/?lang=en

When I pull my head out of the sand from time to time I like to read this, then bury my head back in the sand.

I would rather pull the trigger on a well done vintage Mauser than recent dumoulin made in china.

Ok, I now know that all Mausers are crap and unsafe to shoot. Don't get the car pictures though.
What I now want to see is a detailed metallurgical analysis of other actions of the period. Please provide those for a comparison. 03 Springfield, 1917 Enfield, 91 Mosin, and Model 70 Winchester, at a minimum. Might have to stop using those too. Probably.
Now, I am in the process of scrapping all my Mausers. Couple hundred of them. Three Dumoulins; made in China? I kind of liked those; oh well....
No you can't come and pick them up out of the dumpster.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
I would rather pull the trigger on a well done vintage Mauser than recent dumoulin made in china.

Hey...if it looks like the picture...must be good right? AARRG!

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Ok, I now know that all Mausers are crap and unsafe to shoot. Don't get the car pictures though.
What I now want to see is a detailed metallurgical analysis of other actions of the period. Please provide those for a comparison. 03 Springfield, 1917 Enfield, 91 Mosin, and Model 70 Winchester, at a minimum. Might have to stop using those too. Probably.
Now, I am in the process of scrapping all my Mausers. Couple hundred of them. Three Dumoulins; made in China? I kind of liked those; oh well....
No you can't come and pick them up out of the dumpster.

No, no, no. Times have changed, its is no longer prove its unsafe, it is up to you to prove that they are safe. I am not using them because none of you cultists have ever provided the information to make that sort of informed decision. All you have is the ignorance argument.

So, lets begin this all over again. Make the case that using a structure above its design loads and material criteria, is safe.

Make the case that those old actions you are using are structurally sound. How did you do that?

Do that without using the ignorance argument, that is you don't know, have not heard, etc. And don't use sarcasm, or magical thinking.

My pictures of vintage items is a reflection of the technology on the factory floor. That must have gone over your head.

why don't you tell me how they purified the ore, the steel processes of the period, and their limitations, what instrumentation they used, to determine the quality of the steel back then? And how they removed residuals?

Even better, how do to they remove residuals now.

Truly the natural state of the human race is ignorance, superstition, and denial. Cultists show this in spades. And by the way cultists, I am not interested in your ignorance and superstition, I wanted to know from the gunsmith who had actions surface hardened, how the receiver seats held up afterwards.

How do you know your Dumoulin is safe? Has it got proof marks?

In any event have fun with your Whelen. She's a real beauty, you must be proud, I sure would feel lucky to have such a fine rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by metal:
How do you know your Dumoulin is safe? Has it got proof marks?

Europeans use a proof system, but it is now a combination of a historical legacy and a means by which to cull out those old, historical firearms.

I have a lot more confidence in post vacuum tube manufacturing technology than pre vacuum tube manufacturing technology. The ignorant and stupid truly believe that the Kaiser had a cell phone, that Alexander the Great was filmed in black and white, the Celts were feminist, etc. They project today's technology and social attitudes on the past based on what they see on the TV or movies.

I have asked senior people at American gun manufacturer's why they perform a proof test, and the answer comes back, more or less, liability and to satisfy the customer's expectations. If the customer would accept a sprinkling of holy water, they would do that instead. The traditional European proof test is a one off 30% over pressure event. Nothing made today should fail that. In fact, a lot of those old single heat M1903's made it past the proof test only to explode later in the faces of American troops. Single over pressure tests will not reveal structural defects, or material defects, which do evidence themselves in use.

I think a hysteresis pressure test would be appropriate for older actions. My suggestion is a hydraulic cylinder, a barrel screwed into the action, and water at pressures down the barrel to stress the bolt lugs, receiver seats, and action threads. If measurements were taken of the amount of movement of the lugs, receiver seats and threads, before and after loading just below yield, over lets say, 100 to 1000 cycles, that would be an excellent prediction of the resilience of the materials. If the material deforms, the action would be bad, if the material relaxation decreases, the action would be bad.

This won't happen, instead Cultist gunsmith's will be projecting their love for old objects, never built for the pressures they chamber them in, and clapping their hands for Tinker Bell.

quote:

Originally posted by metal:
How do you know your Dumoulin is safe? Has it got proof marks?

How about material certifications? Dumoulin requires those, I'd imagine, where ever the steel or complete product comes from. I work in a machine shop (both CNC and manual) that does lots of oil field work for major (and minor) oil companies. Just about anything we make is required to be accompanied by material certifications. 95% of oil field flanges and fittings comes from India. These items are all accompanied my MPRs which lists what material was used. We don't see any of these products failing. For awhile, we'd see pipe fittings made in China. There was problems with some of those, mostly in the threading. Now, if someone is putting the Dumoulin name on a product without prior authorization, I'm sure the real Dumoulin would be suing the pants off of them, and anyone who was selling or involved in any way. Almost any product made or sold in the US has MPRs (which list what material). It's all about the legalities in case there's a 'problem'.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
In any event have fun with your Whelen. She's a real beauty, you must be proud, I sure would feel lucky to have such a fine rifle.

Thanks. The thing really kicks with 225 and 250 grain bullets. I find it very difficult to shoot target level accuracy, with a rifle that knocks me, and my forward rest, out of position each shot! After fifty shots with a 35 Whelen, a 30-06 feels like a pop gun.

Well, lets see.
DPCD sent in a Danzig smallring to be heat treated for me. A new Douglas barrel in 256 Newton was put on it. I shoot 120's at 3100 fps, so no WWI 8mm load.
I have put a little over 700 rounds through it so far. I love the rifle, so tight and smooth an action, I doubt any new made mauser could beat it. Zero galling or setback can be seen. Headspace is still right on, unchanged.
That is already more rounds then most hunters would put through a hunting rifle in their lifetime. I still have more playing and shooting to do with it. If I survive fireing the next few hundred rounds, I'll report any issues.

quote:

Originally posted by slivers:

quote:

Originally posted by metal:
How do you know your Dumoulin is safe? Has it got proof marks?

How about material certifications? Dumoulin requires those, I'd imagine, where ever the steel or complete product comes from. I work in a machine shop (both CNC and manual) that does lots of oil field work for major (and minor) oil companies. Just about anything we make is required to be accompanied by material certifications. 95% of oil field flanges and fittings comes from India. These items are all accompanied my MPRs which lists what material was used. We don't see any of these products failing. For awhile, we'd see pipe fittings made in China. There was problems with some of those, mostly in the threading. Now, if someone is putting the Dumoulin name on a product without prior authorization, I'm sure the real Dumoulin would be suing the pants off of them, and anyone who was selling or involved in any way. Almost any product made or sold in the US has MPRs (which list what material). It's all about the legalities in case there's a 'problem'.

Very interesting. I have no evidence that material certifications were ever required, or thought of, prior to 1920's. I am going to claim that material certifications are a post semi conductor, post space age, thing.

I do know that the wrought iron, used to make steels in the WW1 era were purchased based on "reputation". The price of wrought iron was based solely on the reputation of the maker. Once the word got out, prices dropped. Early iron and steel makers and users did not have the ability nor technology to perform timely material composition tests.

And yet, the Cultist's believe ancient materials are in fact better than today's. They truly believe that Sigman the Dragon slayer had a magical sword that could cut granite boulders, and still slice a silk handkerchief in the air! If you work in metal technology, you know the steels of today have improved since the 1980's. Bearings keep rolling longer due to smaller and smaller quantities of residuals.

Cultists might acknowledge that bearings have gotten better, but they also believe, nothing today compares to the perfection of Sigman's sword.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Well, lets see.
DPCD sent in a Danzig smallring to be heat treated for me. A new Douglas barrel in 256 Newton was put on it. I shoot 120's at 3100 fps, so no WWI 8mm load.

I have put a little over 700 rounds through it so far. I love the rifle, so tight and smooth an action, I doubt any new made mauser could beat it. Zero galling or setback can be seen. Headspace is still right on, unchanged.

That is already more rounds then most hunters would put through a hunting rifle in their lifetime. I still have more playing and shooting to do with it. If I survive fireing the next few hundred rounds, I'll report any issues.

Shoot out the barrel and tell us how things are going.

Look, I am going to error in the direction of safety. I do not want to be behind some ancient relic that may, or may not structurally fail. I found in Dieter's M98 book that 1:100 new Bavarian issue GEW98's were cracking their bolt lugs, in the Bavarian service. His book covered the period up to 1918,

Hey, its your face. I want to use actions that will withstand over pressure events that will demolish antique actions. Vintage actions will not take this sort of abuse.







A bunch of Spanish small ring Mausers were imported. These would accept a 308 Win cartridge, but the Spanish cartridge was a downloaded version, running at historical 7mm Mauser pressures. Then pictures started being posted of what happens when enough full pressure 308 Win cartridges are fired in these relics.







Even older designs, such as the Win M70's that are re reviled in this thread, due to modern materials survive catastrophic events that do demolish those antique receivers. The M70 handles gas poorly, so the things have their limitations. A bud of mine was shooting his controlled round feed M70's. He had a 270 Win round rolling around on the bench when he started shooting his 300 Win Mag. Dur to the claw extractor, the 300 Win Mag rifle accepted and fired the 270 Win. Case head ruptured on the 270 Win cartridge. Floor plate was not blown open, but the scope was bent. The entire left side of his face was bloody from brass and gunpowder particles, his left eyelid was closed so he did not loose sight in that eye. He claimed his right eye was protected by the scope bell. His Mc Millian fiberglas stock came out of it without splitting.


The action was headspaced and found to be OK. The rifle is back in use.

I am going to claim, few military Mauser actions would have survived such an incident.

Do you drive a vintage vehicle without safety belts? You are perfectly safe until you hit something. Would that make you feel good?


The styling is great, this is a beautiful car



it is also a death trap in an accident.

If you are not smart enough to know what round you put in your rifle, you had better stick to Rem 700's
In the mean time, I will continue to shoot my lovely Danzig. yes I will watch the headspace, just as I do on the other 100+ rifles I shoot.
If you are scared of mausers, don't shoot them.
But, I'm just not shaking in my boots at this time.

Now who would have though a simple question/post would get so far off topic....

I'm just shocked that someone wants to chat about fumbling an overloaded round into a Remington 700 is worth bringing up in a discussion about Mausers.

Happy New Year Folks!

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
If you are not smart enough to know what round you put in your rifle, you had better stick to Rem 700's
In the mean time, I will continue to shoot my lovely Danzig. yes I will watch the headspace, just as I do on the other 100+ rifles I shoot.
If you are scared of mausers, don't shoot them.
But, I'm just not shaking in my boots at this time.

quote:

Originally posted by K W Johnston:
Now who would have though a simple question/post would get so far off topic....

I'm just shocked that someone wants to chat about fumbling an overloaded round into a Remington 700 worth bringing up in a discussion about Mausers.

Thus proving the natural state of humanity is ignorance, superstition, and denial.

Tell me what type of cell phone the Kaiser used....

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
All those elements, that were not in the material spec, are crap that should not be there. So, given the relative poor quality of WW1 period steels, how well long do receiver surfaces re carbonized last? All a carbuization process does is add carbon to the surface, which should make the surface hard and more wear resistance. But that surface is only to 0.015 to 0.020 thick. The base material stays the same crap it was when it was poured out of the ladle.

So you've been there done that and know this crap Mauser steel just won't cut it. right? on all the Mausers you've built.

I have a surprising number of Mausers. I won't use one of those vintage Mausers in an application where the pressure of the cartridge is higher than the original service cartridge. If you research this, you will find WW1 era Mausers, 7mm or 8mm were operating at an average of 3000 atmospheres, or 43,000 CUP During WW2 the load is running about 46,000 CUP.

As the gunsmith noted, the typical pre WW1 receiver he handles has receiver seat setback.

When I had my gunsmith build a 35 Whelen using a Mauser action, I used this action







It is made of modern materials. I forget the alloy, but it was described as an alloy receiver, which means its through hardness will be consistent, instead of those early shallow hardening plain carbon steels. Also, at a minimum, the yield strength will be 25%, but probably is 50% higher, and the fatigue lifetime will be much better.

You know, the shooting community thinks the Kaiser had a cell phone. He was lucky to have electricity. It is more probable he had gas lights, coal stoves, and a privy out the back. It is unlikely he had running water, but, never know, it was Germany, and they were fairly forward leaning for the era. But that means nothing in terms of technology even 20 years later.


Cutting edge technology






President's McKinley's inauguration carriage. Horse drawn carriage



Cool period horse drawn fire pumper. The firemen made a fire under the boiler, that created steam to run a water pump. Cities did not necessarily have fire hydrants, so the firemen would run hoses to rivers, lakes, ponds for a water supply.



1910 Studebaker Dump Wagon. Horse drawn of course.


Moderns would know that a 1G flip phone is hopelessly obsolete and yet they earnstly believe the technology of 130 years ago is equal to now. Helping to prove that denial and delusions are intrinsic to the human condition.

Slam Fire, I'll say what a lot of others think, that rifle ain't very pretty at all. It might do the job, but wouldn't fit in my gunsafe.

I'm with Metal! If a book was made up, gathering all the ad nauseum ever written on this (minus car photos)...it would take a Peterbilt to transport it.

Have you put 700+ rounds through your 35 Mauser Slam Fire to know it is holding up fine?
That idiot gun writer, Jim Carmichel's favorite big game rifle was a custom .338 win mag. Built on a heat treated 1909 Argentine.
Has anyone heard he blew a hand or his face off? He obviously knows a lot less then Slam Fire.

Why is it that those who don't work on Mausers for a living have so much to say about them?

I have over 60 jumps out of airplanes, ride motorcycles, and shoot mausers. I just like to live dangerously.

quote:

Originally posted by metal:
How do you know your Dumoulin is safe? Has it got proof marks?

The reason I asked this is because on the website it states that the Dumoulin receiver and bolt are made from A2 tool steel heat treated to 47-48 RC.
Is this feasible or appropriate?

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
Why is it that those who don't work on Mausers for a living have so much to say about them?

Some people love to hear themselves speak.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Slam Fire, I'll say what a lot of others think, that rifle ain't very pretty at all. It might do the job, but wouldn't fit in my gunsafe.

If you really think I care one teeney tiny bit what you and "the others" think, you have over estimated your importance in this world.

I make my guns for myself, and the mindless herd can move off in any direction that it wants. I am not part of it.

quote:

Originally posted by metal:

quote:

Originally posted by metal:
How do you know your Dumoulin is safe? Has it got proof marks?

The reason I asked this is because on the website it states that the Dumoulin receiver and bolt are made from A2 tool steel heat treated to 47-48 RC.
Is this feasible or appropriate?

I remember seeing that, and discounted it.

Tools steels are noted primarily for their hardness. Why would any materials engineer specify a tool steel in that application? Is the user going to shear strip steel with their rifle receivers? Or blank brass cups with the front of their receiver? A2 steel makes for a good knife steel, and in that application, hardness is good.

The Chinese have more, and better engineers than American's will ever admit. A bud of mine was discussing with me the alloy the Chinese used in their M14 receivers. In the 1990's a bunch of semi auto Chinese made semi autos came into the US, and bud had one tested for its alloy. It was a good choice, in fact, a higher grade material than the 8620 used in GI receivers. The National Emergency steels used in Garands and M14 receivers are the bare minimum for the application. The Chinese picked a better alloy, one that was superior in all respects.

I highly suspect Sarco really did not understand what alloy was used, and picked what a backyard mechanic would choose. Some name they associate with quality, but not having any idea whether it was appropriate for the application.