I have another question about the Mauser that was in a previous thread ("Mauser action question").

I now know the rifle was built on a Zastava action which has had a rear bridge welded on to it.

If the advertisement for the rifle said it was a "Mauser Model 98" with a "single square bridge action", am I being unreasonable in thinking the ad was misleading?

Is a Zastava correctly called a Mauser Model 98 or is it more correctly called something else? Of course it is a Mauser-type action, I get that.

And it certainly does not have a single square bridge action.

Is a Whitworth or Interarms (also Zastava made right?) a Mauser Model 98? Is an FN?

Thanks for any opinions or advice.

You could call it a standard length, large ring, commercial 98 action. With the understanding that "commercial" in this case means it has no charger hump and has a solid left sidewall. Other Commercial 98's have had charger humps as well as thumbcuts, or just charger humps but no thumbcut. The variations are almost limitless.

You could split hairs here forever.

Thanks Mike, I always appreciate your knowledge.

I'm a whole lot less concerned about whether it can really be called a Model 98; I was just curious. In the future I am going to be very careful what I call things if I sell them.

The real issue is the fact that they stated it was a single square bridge action, which it isn't.

According to Speed's book, Zastava made actions for Mauser during the 1980's that even had the Mauser banner on them. So I guess they could be called true Mauser actions

psmith ,,yes it is misleading if u arent as savy on commercial mausers as some are ,,and i dont mean that as an insult ,i see a lot of gun dealers selling mausers as "commercial" when they are not they also claim to not know so much about them ,, now again they are not fooling me or as i said some other sseasoned collectors but there are some new people to the mauser sporter crowd who can be fooled or plain confused ,,if that was a real single square bridge solid left wall reciever it would be rare in that case the 6500$ that the seller is lookking for it on guns international would be worth it even without a makers name ,, btw if you are in need of a big caliber there is a 9.3x62 at willoughby and mcabe it is listed as a square bridge which it is ,, but a double square bridge solid left wall original mauser "with the rear bridge milled down for the scope mount " now that is one of the best deal on the web at 4400$ and i have no affiliation with them ....paul

Like so many discussions on these forums it kinda boils down to physical facts and semantics. If you approach it from the semantics angle 'is it a Mauser' you have to determine first WHAT IS a Mauser,only arms built at the Mauser factory or the generally accepted notation of all the actions of this type as 'Mauser' actions. Once this determined you know what to call it as to name so you approach the Single square bridge portion. It actually DOES have a single square bridge whether original or not it DOES have one. Is it a Model 98, here again most commonly refer to this type of action as a Model 98 just as most 45 ACP pistols are referred to as 1911's. If you want to be scrupulously honest in your advertising this would have to be described as a 'Model xxxxxxxxxx (you would have to find the original Zastava model number which might well be something like 103zk5l) Zastava action that has meen modified with a welded on rear square bridge. And after you described it absolutely technically correct no one would have any idea what you were advertising for sale without a picture. Then when they saw the picture they would say 'Oh Yeah a 98 Mauser single square bridge'. If you want to play the semantics game I will refer you to my Brother who has a PhD in Linguistics for you who have any idea what that is.

I really suppose that "Mauser Action" has become a generic term, like "Scotch Tape" or "Biro".

To mean, today, any maker's exact copy (with or without hump and cut-out)of the original German Mauser made action for the Mauser 98 rifle.

Now in honesty it should then be qualified with FN Mauser or Santa Barbara Mauser or some such to define the actual factory where it was made.

I'd say that if a rifle was sold as a "MAUSER ACTION 7x57" that you'd have no just cause for a refund if that action was made by Zasatava.

But that if it was described as a "MAUSER 7x57" then if it was made by Zasatava that you would have.

The "nub" is whether that word "MAUSER" was qualified by the word "ACTION" or not.

In much the same way that Lee-Enfield SMLE can mean a BSA or LSA or Lithgow or Ishapore or genuine Enfield made SMLE.

just for the record when i say "commercial mauser' i mean only pre war oberndorf actioned sporting rifles and the fact that the factory in oberndorf was destroyed and only 123,00 or so were made makes them more collectable,,and just for the record thats probably the nicest added on square bridge ive seen on a custom since they,ve become in vogue and the bottom metal which is custom and definetly not zastava looks good too.....paul

Perhaps a close look at the "System 98" features couold be the deciding factor.

One pierce firing pin with the unique feature that can't be fired until the bolt is fully closed

"C" ring (Maybe even "H" ring???)

Non rotating extractor with undercut

Third safety lug on bolt body.

Controlled round feeding

Single loading capability
.


Anything else to add?

The CZ 550 has all these features. The M-70, Enfield, Springfield, Remington. Tikka, Sako....etc etc...do not have all of the above features...hence (I believe) simply cannot be called "Mauser" or Mauser system.

Mr.Wiebe,
I'm not sure I understand what you are referencing about the 'non rotating' extractor. I only have one totally original Mauser action and it is a single square bridge but the extractor rotates around the bolt like all the other Mausers I have owned. It also will not single load unless you press in on the extractor to get over the rim. As to the one piece firing pin thats really not apparent unless disassembled is it?

True, with the bolt out of the receiver, the extractor can be made to rotate around the bolt. However, when the bolt is in the receiver and operated to load, fire and extract a cartridge, it is the bolt that rotates while the extractor only travels forward and rearward in the receiver's right lug recess.

Actually never thought about it that way. But then Ive never seen an external extractor that didn't work that way,Springfield,Winchester,etc.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
Mr.Wiebe,
I'm not sure I understand what you are referencing about the 'non rotating' extractor. I only have one totally original Mauser action and it is a single square bridge but the extractor rotates around the bolt like all the other Mausers I have owned. It also will not single load unless you press in on the extractor to get over the rim. As to the one piece firing pin thats really not apparent unless disassembled is it?

Actually, the extractor stays in the 3 o' clock position at all times...that is what I mean about a non rotating extractor...it's not attached to the bolt...the bolt rotates independent of the extractor.

M70 and 1903 have true single-loading capability (i.e. drop a cartridge into the chamber and close the bolt) but the Mauser 1898 requires that the extractor be either modified or manipulated to allow the claw to slip over the cartridge rim when not fed from the magazine.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
M70 and 1903 have true single-loading capability (i.e. drop a cartridge into the chamber and close the bolt) but the Mauser 1898 requires that the extractor be either modified or manipulated to allow the claw to slip over the cartridge rim when not fed from the magazine.
Regards, Joe

There is a 1MM clearance in the ring to allow single loading...Brevex didn't do that as barrel maker Buhmiller found out on an elephant hunt.

Actually, maybe not most, but a large percentage of 98's will snap over for single loading. If not, a simple change of the angle on the upper part of the hook will do the trick...same engagement, just different angle.

Some modern System 98's have a thicker hook to make this angle longer...however, an extractor relief cut in the barrel is needed (FZH, GMA...etc) Early GMA's had the thicker hook, but not the 1mm clearance..hmmmm...anyway current mfg has it all straightened out.