What Mauser action for custom

09 March 2017, 03:08

Gundog 64

All,
If you were going to build a 404 Jeffery, what Mauser action would you want to use? I know I could do it on a Mdl. 70 but really would like to use a Mauser. Satterlee is not an option. Thanks in advance for your opinions/ideas.
John

09 March 2017, 03:51

farbedo

In a military action, I would use a VZ24. No reason not to and you don't worry about heat treatment. If it will be re-hardened, any clean large ring action is fine.

In a modern repro, Granite Mountain or FZH are great custom actions, but they need a good gunsmith's touch along with heat treatment. If you can find a .375 H&H length Mark X ( Rem 798, or Zastava M70), that would be a good platform as well. My only complaint with those is they tend to be so overpolished that they need a bit of clean up to be square and clean looking actions. Otherwise, they are solid.

Duane Wiebe's bottom metal would be my first choice.

Jeremy

09 March 2017, 04:25

MJines

1909 Argentine or 1935 Chilean.

09 March 2017, 06:06

MNR

quote:
Originally posted by farbedo:
In a military action, I would use a VZ24. No reason not to and you don't worry about heat treatment. If it will be re-hardened, any clean large ring action is fine.

In a modern repro, Granite Mountain or FZH are great custom actions, but they need a good gunsmith's touch along with heat treatment. If you can find a .375 H&H length Mark X ( Rem 798, or Zastava M70), that would be a good platform as well. My only complaint with those is they tend to be so overpolished that they need a bit of clean up to be square and clean looking actions. Otherwise, they are solid.

Duane Wiebe's bottom metal would be my first choice.

Jeremy

I 2nd the VZ 24 for action and Wiebe for bottom metal. The GMA will not require heat treat but it didn't sound like a custom action was in the budget.

09 March 2017, 13:44

ColoradoMatt

It's a good idea to have any milsurp action tested for hardness. Even a vz-24 can be soft. If you are taking metal from the feed ramp/lower lug seat, it would be best to re-harden anyway, so the advantage of a vz-24 is partially lost. Depending on how the feed/ejection work is done, sometimes a notch is made at 12 O'clock, behind the upper lug seat, as well. When it comes to Mauser feed work, and opening up actions for long fat rounds, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If you are not going to re-harden, you might consider taking as much metal out of the back of the action and bolt stop as is safe. This will minimize what is needed to be taken from the feed ramp etc.

Matt
FISH!!

Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984:

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

09 March 2017, 19:19

butchlambert

I just posted photos of my Lott. It was built on a VZ-24

09 March 2017, 21:00

ramrod340

While the Zastava actions make a very nice serviceable rifle. I just don't think they carry the value. Heck even a quality FN doesn't. Would I use either for my hunting rifle. Yep in a heart beat. Would I use one as the base for a high $$ custom? No.

09 March 2017, 21:35

butchlambert

For a small caliber I like my Zestava. This one is in 220 Russian.

Some more Roger Vardy wood.
No, I haven't shot it yet.

09 March 2017, 21:58

ramrod340

Very Nice Butch

13 March 2017, 07:03

JBrown

quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
It's a good idea to have any milsurp action tested for hardness. Even a vz-24 can be soft.

Do you have any more info on this? I ask because I have been under the impression that heat treatment is not an issue with the VZ-24

Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown

13 March 2017, 09:05

ColoradoMatt

quote:
Originally posted by JBrown:
quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
It's a good idea to have any milsurp action tested for hardness. Even a vz-24 can be soft.

Do you have any more info on this? I ask because I have been under the impression that heat treatment is not an issue with the VZ-24

I've picked a few gunsmith/gunmakers brains about this subject. Got kind of obsessed with it, actually, when researching the plausibility of building a 416 Rigby on a standard length action. While most VZ-24's are quite hard, there are some that one wouldn't want to do magnum pressure builds with without re-hardening. I don't know what serial number range, year of manufacture, contract, lot etc. weeker actions are found. Just that they exist. For example, D'Arcy Echols said (and I'm not sure if he told me this in one of my brain picking conversations with him, or if he wrote it here on AR) that he has had VZ-24's in his shop, along with about every other 98 variant, that had lug setback issues. I just wouldn't roll the dice. I would, at least, have any pre-war milsurp action checked, especially if you are going magnum pressure.

13 March 2017, 17:38

shootaway

I don't know much about Prechtl but these actions seem to interest me lately.You might also want check out the actions Ralf Martini is using- FZH.Ralf must know something.A Vektor is a good option if you could find one.Granite Mountain look solid.

13 March 2017, 17:41

Gundog 64

quote:
Originally posted by MNR:

I 2nd the VZ 24 for action and Wiebe for bottom metal. The GMA will not require heat treat but it didn't sound like a custom action was in the budget.

A custom action is very possible, I just did not want to deal with Stuart. He make a nice action, but to much negative for me to feel comfortable dealing with him. Thanks for all the advice I will start keeping my eyes open for an action.

13 March 2017, 17:48

Grenadier

Without second thought, my choice would be FZH -- Feinmechanische Zerspanungs GmbH

Their actions are based on Mauser specifications and original drawings from 1941. You can order with round or square bridges, standard or long tangs, original or Win70 style safeties, left or right hand, in kurz through true magnum sizes.

I would email them, tell them what I was after as an end result, and ask for their advice. They, of course, will recommend and discus in terms of their actions but you can take what you learn from them and use the knowledge regardless of what you ultimately choose to do.

waffen@fzh-gmbh.de

http://www.fzh-gmbh.de/cms/web...tungen/waffenbau.htm

You can order their actions from several gunsmiths in the USA. In my neck of the woods that would be gunsmith Roger M. Green.
He lists action prices: http://rogermgreen.com/gunmake...w_mauser_actions.php

Shown on his website (note the tangs):

quote:
Custom 450 Rigby by Duane Wiebe - Duane used a FZH single squared bridged long magnum action for this build. Exceptional metal styling: half octagon/half round barrel, integral quarter rib, claw mounts, extend top and lower tangs impeccably finished and engraved by Roger Kerr.

13 March 2017, 18:12

shootaway

The Prechtl looks a lot like my Vektor.By looking at it I wonder if it is not the same action.Although I know nothing about hardening metal it feels a bit like my cast Ruger which has its benefits.I believe when an action is hardened it is a super slick and reliable machine.Gunmakers may not like working with hard actions for whatever reason but when it comes to cycling and feeding there is no stickiness or hangups.

13 March 2017, 20:41

Duane Wiebe (CG&R)

Here's some pressure comparisons:
270 Win 65,000 PSI
404 Jeff 53,000 PSI
416 Rigby 47,000 PSI
The 416 would not have pressure issues, just not really enough room in the standard 98 configuration. Having said that , Ammo available in the US will easily fit in a 98, since they are loaded shorter than CIP MAX

By the way, keep in mind that if you order a Satterlee action for a specific caliber, it will feed, function right out of the box. I can't say this about any of the other alternatives. Making some $3500 actions actually work can cost another $1500

A 404 I built on a 1909 Argentine was proofed in France @ over 62,000 PSI. You're fine with most contract 98's.

13 March 2017, 22:39

MNR

The Satterlee action is very nice right out of the box. Screw a barrel on and go. It would be a good option. I've also used a lot of GMA actions. Yes, they may take some work to get to feed. They require blue printing and polish work. All told, there's probably a day or two of work involved. They're still my favorite action to build on and I still consider them a bargain over some other options. Consider what it would cost to take a 98 action, add square bridges, bolt handle, bottom metal, trigger, and get the cartridge to function in it. The cost would be creeping up on a custom action and the re-sale value of the rifle would likely be less.

14 March 2017, 03:00

Duane Wiebe (CG&R)

Can't argue with your logic. However,. many will pay a pretty penny to end up with an action/rifle that says "WAFFENFABRIK" "MAUSER" etc. on the ring.

14 March 2017, 03:17

ColoradoMatt

I was under the impression that Roger Green is the soul U.S. importer of FZH. If not, then I stand corrected.

14 March 2017, 03:47

Grenadier

You may be right, Matt. Other smiths may get them from him.

16 March 2017, 22:03

richj

Venezuelan FN, bottom one is probably Argy

17 March 2017, 04:42

kda55

Bottom one is short, no thumb cutout. What is it besides nice.

17 March 2017, 06:50

butchlambert

Both are very nice.

19 March 2017, 09:42

Nick Hughes

quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
quote:
Originally posted by JBrown:
quote:
Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
It's a good idea to have any milsurp action tested for hardness. Even a vz-24 can be soft.

Do you have any more info on this? I ask because I have been under the impression that heat treatment is not an issue with the VZ-24

I've picked a few gunsmith/gunmakers brains about this subject. Got kind of obsessed with it, actually, when researching the plausibility of building a 416 Rigby on a standard length action. While most VZ-24's are quite hard, there are some that one wouldn't want to do magnum pressure builds with without re-hardening. I don't know what serial number range, year of manufacture, contract, lot etc. weeker actions are found. Just that they exist. For example, D'Arcy Echols said (and I'm not sure if he told me this in one of my brain picking conversations with him, or if he wrote it here on AR) that he has had VZ-24's in his shop, along with about every other 98 variant, that had lug setback issues. I just wouldn't roll the dice. I would, at least, have any pre-war milsurp action checked, especially if you are going magnum pressure.

I recently had a VZ24 in the shop that had significant lug set back don't know if it was formerly barreled for a higher pressure round or original as it was just the action.

19 March 2017, 23:04

butchlambert

Lindy, I have some photos of his work. PM an email and I will oblige you.

20 March 2017, 01:45

Angus Morrison

quote:
Originally posted by Gundog 64:
quote:
Originally posted by MNR:

I 2nd the VZ 24 for action and Wiebe for bottom metal. The GMA will not require heat treat but it didn't sound like a custom action was in the budget.

A custom action is very possible, I just did not want to deal with Stuart. He make a nice action, but to much negative for me to feel comfortable dealing with him. Thanks for all the advice I will start keeping my eyes open for an action.

Don't let the internet make your decisions for you, call Stuart and ask for his take. He definitely is a contender for best M98 available, he made my guiding .375 2 1/4 RNE titanium M98. I've dealt with a few bespoke makers and Stuart's solid, keeps you up to date, takes his time to do it right, and delivers what he promises. This is my titanium Satterlee M98 pure work gun, it was built for hard practical use guiding grizzly hunts hence the multi purpose picatinny bridges, and composite stock.

20 March 2017, 02:04

butchlambert

I think I posted before that my only purchase from Stuart was a receiver. As soon as my check cleared, the receiver showed up.

20 March 2017, 02:14

butchlambert

I have some in progress photos.

20 March 2017, 02:40

Angus Morrison

quote:
Originally posted by butchlambert:
I think I posted before that my only purchase from Stuart was a receiver. As soon as my check cleared, the receiver showed up.

I ordered as I was after some pretty peculiar custom options, picatinny bridges, drop box in titanium, etc. Deivery was long but it was discussed before we started, because of my options I'd be back burner to keep the rate low. Ended up being just as Stuart said and he did extras I didn't specify, my experience has been very positive.

20 March 2017, 06:26

Nick Hughes

quote:
Originally posted by lindy2:
Mr. Hughes

Do you have a website where you display a gallery of photos of your work?

I do not I am not a full time gunmaker and advertise very little but would be glad to email you anything I have. Come and see me in Tulsa 24A upper level.

21 March 2017, 15:34

Haverluk

I would like to piggy back on this one...

Would a ZG47 be a good action to start with for a .404? Could the factory bottom metal of the ZG47 be altered to fit or would one be better of springing for one of Duane's units?

21 March 2017, 19:03

SNAP

You could, IF, you have the right smith, but, I wouldn't.

I have four ZG-based customs left and a few 21/22 series as well, but, think these are best used for 9.3x64 and smaller rounds.

I had a Weibe BM, great stuff, but, never used it. Had a Sunny Hill and do have a Blackburn on my .308Norma custom, the Weibe and the old Wisner units seemed best to me.

For a .404J., I would choose an AHR built CZ-550 and with the Weibe BM Wayne uses.

JMHO, YMMV.

21 March 2017, 19:05

SNAP

Forgot, the factory ZG BM is NOT "real" Mauser and is too small for the .404J, IMHO.

21 March 2017, 21:18

shootaway

I know that both Granite Mountain and Prechtl have their action on display at the SCI convention.

21 March 2017, 22:36

McKay

PM me if interested. I have a Satterlee in the white that I could be talked out of.

21 March 2017, 22:38

McKay

quote:
Originally posted by Angus Morrison:
quote:
Originally posted by Gundog 64:
quote:
Originally posted by MNR:

I 2nd the VZ 24 for action and Wiebe for bottom metal. The GMA will not require heat treat but it didn't sound like a custom action was in the budget.

A custom action is very possible, I just did not want to deal with Stuart. He make a nice action, but to much negative for me to feel comfortable dealing with him. Thanks for all the advice I will start keeping my eyes open for an action.

Don't let the internet make your decisions for you, call Stuart and ask for his take. He definitely is a contender for best M98 available, he made my guiding .375 2 1/4 RNE titanium M98. I've dealt with a few bespoke makers and Stuart's solid, keeps you up to date, takes his time to do it right, and delivers what he promises. This is my titanium Satterlee M98 pure work gun, it was built for hard practical use guiding grizzly hunts hence the multi purpose picatinny bridges, and composite stock.

What year did this happen?

21 March 2017, 22:59

Angus Morrison

quote:
Originally posted by McKay:
quote:
Originally posted by Angus Morrison:
quote:
Originally posted by Gundog 64:
quote:
Originally posted by MNR:

I 2nd the VZ 24 for action and Wiebe for bottom metal. The GMA will not require heat treat but it didn't sound like a custom action was in the budget.

A custom action is very possible, I just did not want to deal with Stuart. He make a nice action, but to much negative for me to feel comfortable dealing with him. Thanks for all the advice I will start keeping my eyes open for an action.

Don't let the internet make your decisions for you, call Stuart and ask for his take. He definitely is a contender for best M98 available, he made my guiding .375 2 1/4 RNE titanium M98. I've dealt with a few bespoke makers and Stuart's solid, keeps you up to date, takes his time to do it right, and delivers what he promises. This is my titanium Satterlee M98 pure work gun, it was built for hard practical use guiding grizzly hunts hence the multi purpose picatinny bridges, and composite stock.

What year did this happen?

Present day McKay, I'm just putting sights on it now, if you look carefully you can see the tape they're dummied on.

22 March 2017, 02:53

McKay

quote:
Originally posted by Angus Morrison:
quote:
Originally posted by McKay:
quote:
Originally posted by Angus Morrison:
quote:
Originally posted by Gundog 64:
quote:
Originally posted by MNR:

I 2nd the VZ 24 for action and Wiebe for bottom metal. The GMA will not require heat treat but it didn't sound like a custom action was in the budget.

A custom action is very possible, I just did not want to deal with Stuart. He make a nice action, but to much negative for me to feel comfortable dealing with him. Thanks for all the advice I will start keeping my eyes open for an action.

Don't let the internet make your decisions for you, call Stuart and ask for his take. He definitely is a contender for best M98 available, he made my guiding .375 2 1/4 RNE titanium M98. I've dealt with a few bespoke makers and Stuart's solid, keeps you up to date, takes his time to do it right, and delivers what he promises. This is my titanium Satterlee M98 pure work gun, it was built for hard practical use guiding grizzly hunts hence the multi purpose picatinny bridges, and composite stock.

What year did this happen?

Present day McKay, I'm just putting sights on it now, if you look carefully you can see the tape they're dummied on.

That's good. I hope he can continue to deliver on time. He makes a great action.