The way I read this a Model 70 safety is not as safe as a Remington trigger safety. Is that actually true?


"A Mauser 98 ceases to be a Mauser 98 once it have been retrofitted with a "better" trigger and a side-swing firing pin safety. Mauser was much too smart for that. It is stupid to use a firing pin safety in conjugation with a modern single stage trigger simply because the safety can function as the trigger if disengaged when the trigger is not properly set.


Two important safety related characteristics of a properly designed fire control (trigger mechanism) is a safety that is not easily disengaged by accident and a safety that ensures that the fire control is left in the set configuration upon safety disengagement. The latter characteristic ensures that disengagement of the safety does not cause an accidental discharge. A safety that only block the firing pin cannot offer such assurance."

If the M70. M700 M98 triggers all fail to engage (fail) then they will all fire if the safety is released.

Seems to me the 700 trigger was in numerous lawsuits because it could fire when the safety was released. Thus a huge recall.

I'm thinking and way to lazy to pull an action but, if the 98 trigger hasn't engaged the cocking piece I don't believe the safety would engage.

In the Model 70 Winchester, when the safety is in the middle position so that the bolt can be operated, doesn't the trigger fail to engage, i.e. its held off the sear?

The M700 trigger and safety are known for accidental firing. The M70 safety locks the firing pin. It's very safe.

Mauser 98 and Win 70 safeties are better than Rem 700 because they cam the firing pin back off of the trigger and lock it in place. The Rem 700 safety locks the trigger.

The quote above is from the developer of the Mauser/Remington/Springfield Action. I too was under the impression (from what I have learned here on AR) that a safety that blocked the firing pin was more safe than one that just blocked the trigger.

He suggests otherwise, calling anyone who thinks differently is "stupid". But it seems like there are a lot of custom rifle buyers who specify that their builder install a e position safety or not remove the one already on the action.

If a Winchester safety is improperly fitted, it can act as the trigger just like the 700. If a Mauser 98 safety is really screwed up, the same is true. If the shooter is a freakin' idiot and does his own trigger work, the likelyhood is many times greater. Regards, Bill

I would not agree that a shooter is a freaking idiot if he/she does his/her own trigger work.
Only if he/she does it improperly.

I said "if the shooter is an idiot and does his own trigger work". I did not say doing his own trigger work makes him an idiot. I was postulating that he was an idiot before he ever picked up a screwdriver. If the act made one an idiot, I would fit solidly in the middle of that demographic since I have been working on triggers since I was fourteen years old.
So, to clarify: "If the shooter is a freakin' idiot", is the first qualifier. "and does his own trigger work" is the second qualifier. It is the combination of the two which vastly increases the chance of a malfunction.
On his own, the idiot can get by just fine providing he is at least aware of the inadvisability of his handling anything sharper than a Twinkie.
On the other hand, I have a friend who once attempted to tune the trigger on his Ithaca 37 shotgun. Subsequently, he was running some reloads through the gun to test function and blew a hole in the ceiling of his gunroom. He told me this was why he paid to have his triggers adjusted. He said it was the same reason he hired electricians rather than doing it himself. This man is far from an idiot and it may be his ability to recognize his own limitations which enabled him to be so successful as a businessman. Regards, Bill

I get it.

If the shooter is an idiot, and does his own trigger work, the likelihood of screwing something up is greater than if the shooter is not an idiot and does his own trigger work.

Thank you.

If the sentence had read "if someone does his own trigger work and also is an idiot, then..." it would have been less ambiguous.

I have to admit reading it the same as lindy2 the first time around.

Same here..But I've read enough of Bill's posts to realize he doesn't just start out by insulting folks.
There's more than enough room on the Political Forum for that kind of stuff....

I've done my own trigger work, and very successfully, I might add. I'm sure there are plenty others who are just as capable; conversely, the world IS full of idiots.

I do not know who said that but he is wrong. I won't call him an idiot, even though I might think so.
Any safety system will release the firing pin if said pin is not held by the trigger mechanism, after release of the safety; The Model 70 is one of the best and safest. .

xausa,
Thank you (and I mean this in all seriousness). I see now that I did, indeed, word my post incorrectly. Typically, I try not to do this. Regards, Bill

I also happen to disagree in that IMO the model 70 trigger is the best of all triggers, and has stood the test of time, same can be said for the 3 pos. safety which is about all you see on any good custom Mauser, its the no. 1 choice of safety for every custom gun builder I know and that is many.

Remington apparantly has the worst of triggers it seems in that they have settled more death claims out of court than any other firearms company according to the experts, and most of the gun guild experts I've talked to. fact or fiction? I personally can't say, but I do believe these guys know what they are talking about..