Being somewhat of a cheepskate I usually purchase the last year's Gun Digest when the new year's one comes out. Just received my 2016 Gun Digest today, and I write just to say what an interesting article Tom Turpin wrote about Tom Burgess. If you have not purchased your 2016 Gun Digest yet do so, not only for Turpin's Custom Guns section, but also for his article on Tom Burgess.

Interesting is the controversy about the make of Jack O'Connor's mauser action that was smithed by Burgess and later claimed by O'Connor's wife Eleanor.

Turpin says it was a Czech VZ24 Mauser that was smithed by Burgess in 1951.

Conversely, O'Connor, in his article in the 5th edition Gun Digest Treasury entitled "Forty Years With the Little 7MM" states "The O'Connors felt civilization crowding in on them , moved away from Tucson to Lewiston, Idaho in 1948. Not long after that I had Tom Burgess, a crack metal man now located in Kalispell, Montana remodel a Czech VZ33 action and fit a 22 inch 7 x 57 barrel. The late Russ Leonard made the stock. Before long my wife latched onto it."

Nevertheless, having visited the Burgess shop a couple of times it is very true what Mr. Turpin says about its cleanliness. Having seen photos of Mr wiebe's shop and having seen Mr. Burgess's shop in person, it would be tough to say which was more messy!

Thanks for the great article Mr. Turpin. Would definitely like to see more like it in a book on the great gunmakers of our times. It has always seemed to me that the more one knows about the artist the more interesting the artist's art becomes. (Would Van Gogh's paintings sell for $100 million if he wouldn't have been crazy and cut off his ear?)

Glad you liked the Burgess piece. I enjoyed doing it. I had lots of help seeking information about him. The family was most helpful, and I'd particularly like to thank two of his colleagues and friends, Jerry Fisher and Lee Helgeland. As to whether Eleanor's 7x57 started as aVZ24 or VZ33, I can't really say. The one guy that knows more about O'Connor and his guns is Eldon "Buck" Buckner. Buck wrote a bit of Anderson's biography of O'Connor, including the very informative section on O'Connor's guns. In his description of what became Eleanor's rifle, he wrote that it was a modified VZ24. Buckner has much of O'Connor's personal files at his disposal. I have had the rifle in my hands and photographed it, but did not make any effort to determine if it was a VZ33 or VZ24. I doubt that I could tell the difference after all the markings had been removed in the customizing process. I wouldn't trust O'Connor's judgement either as he had a reputation of being terribly non-technically oriented. Brad told me that Jack often liked to boast that he didn't learn to tie his shoelaces until he was a teenager! Anyway, my information came from Anderson's book, and further from the Buckner written section on O'Connor's guns.

TT

The difference between a VZ24 and a VZ33 can be made by a blind man.
The 24 is a large ring and the 33 a small ring action.

I imagine that Tom would have known that if it were important to the story, he would have picked it up and felt it.

Well guys, I really didn't pay any attention to whether it was a small ring or large ring action when I had it in my hands. I had but a short time available with it, and my priority was photographing it. I didn't even have enough time with it to do a proper setup for photographs. I simply took it out in my back yard, propped it and Eleanor's other rifle, her "big" rifle, the .30-06 that Len Brownell built for her, up against my Koi pond post, and shot a few images. That was quite a few years back, at least ten or fifteen if not more, and until a few minutes ago, I hadn't taken a close look at the photos to determine if it was a small ring or large ring. Well friends and neighbors, I'll solve the puzzle. It is a large ring as the attached photo clearly show.



I guess we learn something new pretty much every day.

TT

TSquare

I certainly did not make my post to suggest anything other than Mr. O'Connor's recall of Eleanor's Rifle was different than yours. I just thought it terribly interesting. And yes, for the very short time that I knew him Mr. Burgess was a terribly interesting man as well.
How he did what he did in that little shop just down the driveway from his house is beyond me.

I will have to say though (looking at one of my G33/40s here which I believe is almost identical to the VZ-33) that the way that stock sits on the rifle on the left one really can't tell if its a large ring or a small ring. Still, as you noted, Mr. Anderson, in his book on O'Connor, states on page 188 that the Mauser-Burgess-Leonard Custom in 7 x 57 was a Czech VZ24 and this information most likely came from Mr. Buckner. Interesting that Jack O'Connor had a custom rifle made but didn't know what action he used!

When I was at the O'Connor Museum in Lewiston, Idaho I saw some of O'Connor's rifles but I don't recall seeing the one we are talking about. Great little place to visit though!

I didn't take your remarks negatively. Heck, I had the rifle in my hands and I'm still not 100% sure what it started out as. Lets just call it a Czech made Mauser and be done with it. Someone cited on the O'Connor .416 thread elsewhere on AR where O'Connor wrote in a piece that he had shot all his lions with a .375 H&H and a couple paragraphs later in the same piece wrote that he shot his biggest lion with a .416 Rigby. Anything is possible I suppose.

TT

To make a decision on the base of that picture can be difficult.
That leads us to minor details of riflestock making.
Unlike the commercial smallring Mausers and the Czech smallring Mod 32 (example Peruvian).

The VZ33 (identical to 33/40) has a step from the receiver ring to the left sidewall. But that step is produced by thinning the left side wall. Whereas the large receiver ring is also under the sightline of the stock larger.
So if the stockmaker follows the line of the action he must cut a step down in the stock behind the receiver ring. (So as it was done even on the military stock).
Examples here made by Ralph Martini


Maurice Ottmar


But some made it not that way (in gunbroker actually advertised a Tom Burgess made )


Dont want to split hairs , but understand lindy2´s thoughts.

At some point in time Tom decided to carefully remove the lightning shelf from some of these small ring actions to even further lighten them. If my memory is correct he had a small ring arrive that with the left side shelf damaged significantly and did not want to induce warping the action by welding it up. So In typical Burgess fashion solved a problem that he must have liked enough to do on other actions. I have held one of these in my hands.

Done in this manner would eliminate the same treatment given to the ejection port side of the receiver is so desired

Interesting information everyone. Thank you.

Mr. Echols
Perhaps you should get together with Mr. Turpin for your "Biography".

Mr Turpin has much more important things to do

Sorry. I was under the impression that what Mr. Turpin does is write about great guns and great gunmakers.

I have to amend that in my post I made a mistake.
The rifle pictured under the designation Ralph Martini should correctly described as :
Metalwork by Martini and the excellent stockwork by Dave Wesbrook.
Hope they will forgive me.

Attached are a couple photos of how a couple other guys do it. The first one is a .257 AI done up by Pete Grisel. He even took things a step further and welded up the thumb cut. Had he been doing it for me, I'd have had him leave it alone. I don't know who did the stock, but their version of Leonard Mews skip-a-line checkering pattern is superbly done. Perhaps Leonard did the stock????

The second one is a .25-06 the Gary Goudy stocked for me. I think he handled the ledge tastefully.

This marks the first time in my memory that two different folks have called me Mr.Turpin on the same day. To set the record straight, Mr. Turpin is my late father. I answer to most anything, particularly the dinner bell.

TT

TT

That g.33 done up for you by Mr. Goudy is just superb.