I am seriously considering having a top gunsmith create 5 custom Win. Model 70 rifles for hunting the world over...from Varmints to Elephants for my next 20 years...

What cartridges would you have chambered.

Please provide your guidance and advice. I'm thinking of a few possible options:
Options:

• 220 Swift or 6mm Remington
• 270 Winchester or 7x64 Brenneke
  
• 300 Winchester Magnum or Weatherby
• 338 Win. Mag or 9.3x64 Brenneke
• 416 Ruger or 458 Win. Mag or 416 Rem Mag
  

Else, just tell me straight up that I really don't need so much overlap in my primary hunting battery and that should go forth and spend money on hunting and only need 3 custom rifles? Something like a 220 Swift, a 300 Win Mag and a 416 Ruger...I humbly seek your advice.

I would go with two rifles for DG if you plan on going to Africa often.
.404 J
.375 H&H
.30-06/.300 H&H or Win Mag
.220 swift or .243 Win

Leave 1 option open for the future.

Classic Winchester M70 cartridges include the 220 Swift, 270 WCF, 300 H&H, 375 H&H and 458 WM.

I'd go with the 220 and 270 but would upgrade to the 340 Weatherby, 404 J and some larger 45-cal stomper.
Regards, Joe

I am working on a similar concept but more geared toward big game.

1) 404 Jeffery - finished.
2) 375 or 300 H&H - on order
3) 7x57 - on order

Not sure how you define "custom".....we may have different opinons on what makes a true custom rifle or what is a modified rifle??

Have you considered a Mauser action or clone vs a M70?

My preference would be to not sink much money in a Varmint Custom but that's just my opinion.

You have some overlap and could easily get by with 3 true customs and use modified or factory rifles to fill niches but that's up to you and your available budget, etc.

I think I would go with:

.223 Remington
.30-06/.300 Winchester Magnum
.375 H&H
.458 Winchester Magnum

I'm doing something similar, with a primary focus on African hunts. Mine are the 7x57, 300 H&H, 404 Jeffery, 458 Win Mag, and 505 Gibbs.

223
270 or 280
338 WM or 358 NM
416 Taylor
458 Lott

I have the above in my locker, among others.
I can't imagine a scenario anywhere on this planet, where the above 5 wouldn't work.

Bucket-list African Trio (take-downs):
375 Flanged NE, in a Hagn single-shot action
505 Gibbs, in a Mauser M98 Magnum action
577 NE 3", in a sidelock SxS double

Rest-of-the-World/Survival guns, add:
22 LR
12 Ga

My battery consist of the following;

6,5x55
8x68S
9,3x64
404 Jeffery

The fifth could be either my double rifle-drilling in 20/76 - 8x57IRS, my s/s shotgun in 12/70 or my 17 HMR....

M

RD999, all you're missing is $100,000!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
...all you're missing is $100,000!

We can but dream; thank goodness for AR!

im pretty sure griffin and howe had this same concept with mod70 actions during the early 80s ,,i remember seeing the article in gun digest ....go for it ...paul

.257 Roberts
7x57
7x64
9.3x64 or .375 (i'm doing both)
.416 Rigby

A few others mixed in too, but that is my basic entourage.

All I will need to hunt the world over. Course I may be dead by the time I finish them...

Pick a theme, like all Winchester cartridges: 243, 270, 300, 338, 458

I did the same sort of thing, just a little different.
1) 220 Swift
2) 6.5-06
3) 35 Whelen
4) 404 Jeffery
This is working so far.
Doug

quote:

Please provide your guidance and advice. I'm thinking of a few possible options:
Options:
220 Swift or 6mm Remington
270 Winchester or 7x64 Brenneke
300 Winchester Magnum or Weatherby
338 Win. Mag or 9.3x64 Brenneke
416 Ruger or 458 Win. Mag or 416 Rem Mag

Can't see much use in a 220 Swift for big game, so I'd pick the 6mm Remington out of those two. But if you need a smaller cartridge, and are worried about cartridge availability I'd pick a 243 or 22/250. Or a 257 Weatherby if you want that kind of performance.

As much as I hate the 270 it is a much more common caliber than the Brenneke round is. In the end I would build two rifles in 300 Winchester or Weatherby either would be fine, but I'd rather have a back up 300, then have to step down to a 270 or 7x64.

For the 300's make sure you build 2 either 2 is fine.

For the 338 and 9.3x64, I'd go with the 338 since you are wanting an elky type rifle. Neither one are very fast both have vertually the same trajectory as the 30-06 does. I love both cartridges, it's a hard decision. The 338 Winchester isn't a hugely popular caliber outside of the American/Canadian West. The 9.3x64 is boutique by comparison, and I don't know if you lost your ammo even in fairly common areas that you could get some to replace it. I would personally pick the 375 H&H and have a slow enough twist to stabilize 260 grain Nosler Accubonds. Or if you have to have the 338 I'd go with a fast twist and shoot 250-300 grain bulles out of it. The problem with it and the 9.3x64 is that they aren't always going to be big-5 legal everywhere.

The 416's are great, but I think you are better off with the 458. Or you should scrap the 338/9.3x64 rifle and build two 416 Remingtons.

There you have it.

A 257 Weatherby, two 300 Weatherbys and two 416 Remingtons.

I would build all of them as 5/6 round repeaters, sights, stocks, mounts all the same. For the 300's I'd have set them up with where one is a close rifle and one is a far rifle. For the 416's I'd have both of them set up with 1.7-10 or 2.5-10 scopes so you can use them in a Leopard blind at 8x56, on Elphant at 2.5 or 1.7 power, and on eland and kudu at 8 power across the veldt.

So something like this.

247 Weatherby 5-20 or 4-24, or 8-32 powered 30mm x56 objective like the Trijicon 5-20x50 in a direct mount like Nightforce's mount.

1st 300 4-16x56 Ziess
2nd 300 2.5-10x56 Ziess

1st 416 1.7-10x50 or 2.5-10x56 Trijicon, Swarovski, Ziess
2nd 416 1.7-10x50 or 2.5-10x56 Trijicon, Swarovski ziess

You might never kill a cape buffalo or elephant at 10 power, but then again when your using your 416 as a 338 you could kill a lot of big game with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
Pick a theme, like all Winchester cartridges: 243, 270, 300, 338, 458

I like this idea, although the 300 and 338 are awful close to one another.

In a bolt action, my choices would tend to be on heavy side, as I've never had a small animal not die because it was shot with too much rifle. They would be:

1. 458 Lott;
2. 416 Rem. or Rigby;
3. a .338 or .325;
4. a .300 mag, either Win Mag or WSM;
5. a 30-06 or .270;
6. a 6mm Rem. or .243.

I know I gave you 6, not 5. You could lose #3 or you could choose #4 or #5, but these would be my choices.

Interestingly absent from my list is a .375. It's a great cartridge, but in my opinion, a .416 can do anything a .375 can do and more. I've shot everything from buffalo down to impala and turkey and whitetails with my .416 and neither the rifle nor the cartridge ever let me down. If I had to have only one, that would be it.

Classic Five:

500 Jeffery
404 Jeffery (or 416 Rigby)
9.3x62 (or a 375 H&H)
300 H&H
275 Rigby (7x57)

Practical Five:
243 or 25-06
7mm Rem Mag
338 Win Mag
416 Rem Mag
458 Lott

Spot on Seven. But then we start talking doubles.

I would use the .243, the .300 win mag and the .416 Rem if it were me.

Right now, I use a .300 WM and .375 H&H for everything big and a .270 for small stuff. I use a .223 for fun.

based off of your parameters
220 Swift
7X64 Brenneke
300 Weatherby
338 Win Mag
416 Ruger

What I would do:
22-250
270 WSM
338 Rem Ultra Mag
416 Rigby
500 Jeffery

For nostalgia:
220 Swift
7X64 Brenneke
300 H&H
404 Jeffery
505 Gibbs

If I were doing it over it would be:
22-250
270
300 WM
375
458 Lott

Hey Palmer, I guess great minds think (almost) alike!
223
270
300Win
375
458 Lott

And 1 round the world airplane ticket!

I'd ask you first for a bit more information, like what you think you'll likely hunt, if you like reloading or even want to. It could be that if you can afford 5 customs then custom ammo is not an issue, but finding it might still be, or maybe you want wide selection.

I ask all this because it really matters, to me at least. When I was single, maybe even before the kids, and thought I'd have more money and time my batter was this (IIRC)

224 clark
257 roberts ai
264win mag
30-06
308 norma (familial influence)
338 win mag
35 whelen ai
375 h&h
416 taylor
500 jeff

Now, my list, which would cover me for everything on the planet, no matter number of legs, would be this. Mind you this isn't actually what I'll end up with in a year since choices made long ago are still unfolding and I'll just stick with what I have, but I'll be pretty damn close.

223 on a good AR platform
30-06
375 H&H (the 30-06 of Africa)
458 Lott

I don't think there is anything you can't do with those 4 right there. Ammo selection, price and availability cannot be beat with them. You don't even need to load, maybe can't even justify loading unless a LOT of shooting is done.

Just my 2c, worth maybe half that.

Red

If you really want to go classic, then consider these:

.240 Apex
.275 H&H Mag
.300 H&H Mag
.375 H&H Mag
.416 Rigby / .404 Jeffery / 505 Gibbs

Pick you choice on the last group. They are all classics. I have owned rifles in all of the first four and love all those cartridges.

If you are doing M70s, I would do the following

243 Winchester
308 Winchester
338 Win Mag
416 Rem Mag

and if you need more than 308 Win for long range substitute 300 Win Mag.

Classic African calibers:

1) 275 Rigby
2) 300 H&H Magnum
3) 375H&H
4) 416 Rigby
5) 505 Gibbs

quote:

What cartridges would you have chambered.

Please provide your guidance and advice. I'm thinking of a few possible options:
Options:

220 Swift or 6mm Remington
270 Winchester or 7x64 Brenneke
300 Winchester Magnum or Weatherby
338 Win. Mag or 9.3x64 Brenneke
416 Ruger or 458 Win. Mag or 416 Rem Mag

Varmints to elephants.....so I certainly like the first choice but would reconsider and pick the .243 over either the Swift or the 6mm Rem.....it's equal in all respects but far more practical and I wouldn't want a swift ever again.....the .243 IMO is far superior to it.

Choice number two......lets have a serious long look at the .280 Remington instead of the .270 Winchester. It's ability to handle heavier bullets makes it a preferable round over the .270 Winchester and will do anything the .270 ever did.

Since you now have a .280 Rem in the rack, it's doubtful that you need anything in .30 caliber at all.....especially given that you are going to have something like a .338 Magnum sitting around.....Personally I'd delete both the .300 Magnum and the .338 Magnum and build a 9.3 X 62 instead........we're now working on a four gun battery and the money saved will easily pay for much of your first safari...

The last category is the toughest....but not for a guy sitting at a keyboard.....for me it's simple.....have your smith build a .375 H&H and let the rest dwindle in the wind......If you want a serious ele gun then find a double rifle in .470 Nitro....and if you do this you can also delete the 9.3 X 62.....so we're still working on a four gun battery.

1. M-70 in .243
2. M-70 in .280 Remington
3. M-70 in .375 H&H and
4. a double rifle in .470 Nitro (Searcy?)

Now you're ready to go hunting.....

Based on a desire to match the classic M70 with its classic cartridges, I'll stick with my choice of 220 Swift, 270 WCF, 375 H&H and 458 WM. For a medium-bore elk cartridge I'll stick with Bob Hagel's all-time favorite 340 Weatherby.

Reasons?

Swift is a varmint cartridge and one of the best out to perhaps 450-500 yds. It's not suitable for big game but then neither is either the 243 or 6mm (light bullets and low velocity, 6-284 is much better). The Swift is classic Winchester.

270 is somewhat common but still gets the job done every bit as well as either the 280 or 7x64, and is classic Winchester.

375 H&H is basically in the same class as the 404J and is classic Winchester.

458 Win, although not the best 45, is still completely adequate for most dangerous game situations and is classic Winchester.

I love the 338 Win Mag but the 340 Weatherby is still by far the better cartridge IMO. Also IMO the (classic M70) 458WM should be brought out to something larger.

Also IMO, given a 270 and a 340, I see no need for any 300 Mag.

My personal picks? Mostly Mausers and single shots. Cartridges? 22-250, 6.5-06 and 280 Rem, 33 WCF Improved (338-06 capacity), 405 Win, and I lack anything larger than a 45-90. The 33 and 45-90 are single shots, the others are repeaters.
Regards, Joe

How about a poor man/wannabe gunsmith version:
257 Roberts
30/06
338-06
416 Taylor

All on jc Higgins model 50 actions. Mostly re barrel except for the Taylor. Throw in some new stocks and timney triggers.

I have too much time on my hands.

Business needs to go right, and kids through school. before I can start travelling big time for hunting - but can still dream.

My battery so far

243 Heym SR20 left handed in 243 Win - with a 4-12 Swarovski scope - my accurate Roe Deer, Hind stalking rifle for longer range use. I will probably rebarrel this at some point to 6.5x55 or 260 Rem to give a bit more versatility.

7x65R / 16 Bore Combination gun - this is mounted with a 6x42 Zeiss Scope. I also have a 1-4 x20 Nickel scope which I will mount at some point. The rifle does everything a 30-06 does. I shoot a 140 gr for everyday use, but with 177 gr RWS load its putting out nearly 3,000 ft lbs of energy and more than enough for most things. Having teh shotgun withit gives real versatility, and could easily use slugs for close range very quick second shot. For travelling, having a shotgun is always useful, but a 12 bore might be more versatile.

To this I will add a 375 H&H in a bolt action. Ideally some sort of Mauser / Controlled round in a left handed conferation, with 1.5 to 6 power scope.

I could go larger, but here in the UK you can get authority to use the 375 H&H on Red deer, but nothing larger. I would rather have a rifle I was used to, than something I could only shoot abroad.

Since you specify the Winchester Model 70 as your basis, the ability to hunt everything from varmits to elephants anywhere in the world, and five ribles, I would build some overlap into your choices so that you could reasonably take two to hunt most species of game.

That said, here are my thoughts.

.220 Swift or .22-250 - varmints (and small deer-sized game in a pinch)
.270 WCF or 280 Remington - deer-sized game to elk-sized game (and varmints in a pinch), built as a light-weight mountain rifle.
.338 Winchester - deer-sized game to elk-sized game
.375 H&H Magnum - elk-sized game to elephant
.416 Remington or .404 Jeffrey if you are recoil sensitive or if you won't hunt elephant more than a few times, or .458 Lott if you plan to do a lot of elephant hunting - heavy/dnagerous game

What about a
243
270
8mm Rem Mag
375
458

and I'll bet the 8mm Mag sees more action than all the rest.

The Remington solution for Winchester rifles:

.22-250 Rem - all your varminting needs.

.260 Rem - for the stuff unworthy of the 8mm mag

8mm rem Mag - with 220gr bullets you do not need anything else for NA or african plainsgame.

.416 Rem - Good for most anything.


...

My 5 would be:
.223
6.5x55
.30-06
9.3x62
.458 Lott

458 LOTT would not take a lot of work to fit in the Winchester action. You can down load it for practice and enjoyment. There is plenty of .45 caliber bullets available that won't brake the bank. You can always shoot .458 Win. Mag. ammo through it if need be. Future sale is a lot easier .
If you don't have a lot of elephant hunting in the works I would skip the Lott and start at the most practical and proven round the .375 H&H from 235grain to 350grain bullets it will do the job of several calibers and still have long range performance.
.300 H&H if you don't need a little extra range then the .30-06.
If you are a serious varmint shooter then the following three would cover most situations.
6mm REm.
.22-250
.17 HMR

quote:

Originally posted by Palmer:
If I were doing it over it would be:
22-250
270
300 WM
375
458 Lott

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

Why spend so much money on Win 70`s?
Build yourself a 375 H&H instead on a mauser...

One planet, one caliber.

375 H&H

Tough to choose just five, but...

.22-250
.264 Win
.300 WSM (or H&H)
.375 H&H
.404J

Just enough overlap with these to get the job done up or down the scale with anything you would reasonably have in your hand at the time.