Sorry if this is in the wrong section of the forum, but I am looking to purchase Wiebe or something with a similar design Bottom metal for Mauser 98 7x57, open to offers. Contact me here or on my email adress: ravardy@bigpond.com

Roger Vardy.

Good luck. Lots of people looking.

Gotta say that I'm a bit bewildered that the gentleman from Uvalde has seemingly lost interest in production, though I mentioned he should raise prices considerably.

Fact is, these units are WAY underpriced...which I think is the main reason supply has dried up.

Swift Bullet Company bought Ted Blackburn’s designs. You will want the #9 Mauser 30-06 standard depth. They sell for $400. Swift/Blackburn gunmetal seems to be the only game in town anymore, it seems.
I have one of their Oberndorf Magnum Mauser 416 Rigby units. It seems very well made.
https://www.swiftbullets.com/p.../blackburn-gun-metal

We plowed this ground and it's not getting any softer

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Gotta say that I'm a bit bewildered that the gentleman from Uvalde has seemingly lost interest in production, though I mentioned he should raise prices considerably.

Duane, have you been able to get ahold of the guy? I've emailed several times...

No...no response either..beats me!

I've been asleep on the custom parts department for a while. Amazing how quickly things change and supply goes away!

I know its a thankless, low volume, and slim profit market. But it sure is vital to the custom gun trade. A big thank you to guys like Nathaniel Myers for keeping it going!

I have seen some really really nice floor metals that were modified 1909 Argentine units.

or if you have some machinery you could start with a 98 unit and weld parts to make it nice.



Parts and pictures by Metal

An excellent way to obtain the desired assembly. But it is not without a considerable amount of time ,effort and talent invested. By the time this one 09 assembly is complete and polished that $400 Swift might start looking pretty cheap.

In the early 80's a Blackburn 98 assembly was approx. $225 + -. It is now 2021 and many are still thinking such parts should be never be subjected to inflation. Really ?

Just boggles the mind !

A friend and I were just discussing inflation.

If the mentioned bottom metal was $225 in 1985, the price today after a cumulative 143.1% inflation would be $546.99

Coincidentally I had guessed if I were to make bottom metal they would be around $600 a unit.

I think most are more concerned about availability, not so much price.

Ted Blackburn was the best and worst influence on the custom bottom metal market. The best because of his ability to turn out well-designed and well-built product. The worst because he did so at such low prices. He was perpetually broke in spite of the lowest production costs. Ted created a price structure that kept competition at a minimum because it was simply uneconomic to compete with him. Now that he's gone, markets may finally adjust to realistic pricing. Customers will be in for some serious sticker shock when it comes to one-piece custom Mauser bottom metal.

Someone putting together a budget rifle build (Mauser or Model 70) in a non magnum caliber wouldn't be a buyer for custom bottom metal. The standard magazine box that came with the action will work for that.

Building a first class custom rifle isn't cheap. If you want a much better looking unit that factory OR a big magnum caliber then you know going into the deal its gonna be more expensive. So the cost of magnum length bottom metal is just part of what you sign up for. I think that's how someone who's done there research ahead of time looks at it anyway.

Nathaniel, if you ever decide to do it...Magnum length boxes for Enfields would go well with your Enfield Safeties for someone putting together a 416 or 450 Rigby. I didn't say it would be a big volume seller! Anyone doing an Enfield knows they take a Ton of work , but the finished product looks great.

Duane, I'm sure your more disappointed than the rest of us with how things turned out. Selling the bottom metal business to an individual who could have devoted more time to it that you had probably would have worked out better for everyone. Things just go the other way sometimes.

Well...

Ya'll get yer buckets of cash out and ship em' my way.

Lord willing 1917 bolt shrouds will be done this month (heat treat gave me a heart attack yesterday when they politely let me know that they lost my parts, only to let me know a few hours later that they had already started heat treating them and that was why they couldn't find them) and I'll be finishing up 96 bolt shrouds next month.

After that... so say May... I have 18 items on the customer "want" list, that no one has put their money where their mouth is.

KW Johnston, thank you for the kind words. If you want to thank anyone, send my wife a thank you note



If it weren't for her, I wouldn't be here doing this.

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
Well...

................

...................I have 18 items on the customer "want" list, that no one has put their money where their mouth is.

Oh my, I'm so surprised.....

A good wife that is tolerating and encouraging of a man's hobby/business is a real blessing.

I'm a little curious, what are the items on the "want list" Nathaniel ? I can't guarantee it will be successful but you can always start a preorder or group buy list somewhere on here. Like I say may only hear crickets chirping , but you never know...

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
Well...

Ya'll get yer buckets of cash out and ship em' my way.

Lord willing 1917 bolt shrouds will be done this month (heat treat gave me a heart attack yesterday when they politely let me know that they lost my parts, only to let me know a few hours later that they had already started heat treating them and that was why they couldn't find them) and I'll be finishing up 96 bolt shrouds next month.

After that... so say May... I have 18 items on the customer "want" list, that no one has put their money where their mouth is.

KW Johnston, thank you for the kind words. If you want to thank anyone, send my wife a thank you note



If it weren't for her, I wouldn't be here doing this.

In all fairness, what are the terms of making these parts on the want list?

What’s the price?
What’s the deposit?
What’s the minimum # of parts you need orders for to start making them?
When is the expiration of my deposit so it will be returned to me if the min is not met? Never?


Not trying to be petty, and I agree guys talk way more than they buy, but if the terms are clear upfront it makes it easier for people to understand the reality of the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by K W Johnston:
A good wife that is tolerating and encouraging of a man's hobby/business is a real blessing.

I'm a little curious, what are the items on the "want list" Nathaniel ? I can't guarantee it will be successful but you can always start a preorder or group buy list somewhere on here. Like I say may only hear crickets chirping , but you never know...

At some point here I will write up a list of items. Half of them will probably never be made due to lack of demand. Many are not custom rifle parts, so many may not apply directly to this forum, but I may start a page on my website for items of interest.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
In all fairness, what are the terms of making these parts on the want list?

What’s the price?
What’s the deposit?
What’s the minimum # of parts you need orders for to start making them?
When is the expiration of my deposit so it will be returned to me if the min is not met? Never?


Not trying to be petty, and I agree guys talk way more than they buy, but if the terms are clear upfront it makes it easier for people to understand the reality of the situation.

All of those questions are covered if I do a presale and you express interest. Nothing petty about asking them!

Has Sunnyhill and Swift stopped production of Mauser bottom metal?

I believe Swift is still in production. Sunny Hill seems to only be selling through Brownells now. For awhile they were just listed as "out of stock". It looks like you can now "pre-order" though.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
Has Sunnyhill and Swift stopped production of Mauser bottom metal?

Sunnyhill is still supposedly in business, but I have never been able to get ahold of anyone.

A number of customers that have asked me about bottom metal have said that Swift did not have their item in stock, and were basically told it would be in stock when it was in stock. One fellow told me he had been waiting almost 2 years... whether any of that is true, I do not know.

I do know that the one time I talked to someone at Swift he apparently had neither the time nor the inclination to talk to me or answer my questions. So I would rather make my own bottom metal than deal with them.

A friend of mine bought a model 70 unit from Swift not long after they took over the Blackburn production. He got his fairly quickly .It was really nice and certainly worth the money.

I didn't get a chance to handle any of pieces made by Mr. Wiebe, and have never seen a Sunny Hill unit either. Unless they were on a gun at a show or something and I didn't know it.

Wasn't Recknagel or NECG dealing in some bottom metal or floorplates at one time ??

I have an extra, for now, Wiebe bottom metal and follower for an Enfield. I also have one on my James Anderson 416 custom. The workmanship is over the top.I mean that for both the Wiebe product and James's work.

quote:

Originally posted by K W Johnston:
Wasn't Recknagel or NECG dealing in some bottom metal or floorplates at one time ??

I believe Recknagel does make Mauser bottom metal, as do a couple other sources in Europe, however NECG does not stock them, and special orders seem to take 6 months to a year or more. COVID has made things even worse.

I had heard rumor that one or some of the German Mauser makers used Blackburn floormetal for their complete actions. Not sure if true.

Germans are also not afraid to charge reasonable prices for their machine work.

NECG bottom metal for 500 Jeffery. Just a reference.

https://www.newenglandcustomgu....php?prod=500Jeffery

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
I had heard rumor that one or some of the German Mauser makers used Blackburn floormetal for their complete actions. Not sure if true.

Germans are also not afraid to charge reasonable prices for their machine work.

Yup. Mayfair and FZH actions ain’t cheap...

Holy $#!& that NECG bottom metal is expensive!! Then again, if you've decided you want a 500 Jeffrey you already know building it, shooting it, or hunting Africa with it is all expensive.

The average plumber gets $85+/hour.

The average gunmaker prototyping and producing custom floormetal for a Mauser gets flamed because they expect to get paid more than $10/hour.

I respect the plumber.

If you don't want to pay his rate, do it yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

Yup. Mayfair and FZH actions ain’t cheap...

and they're not made in china or mass produced.

VERY limited # of places that produce these luxury items.

Timex or Rolex both get the job done.

quote:

Originally posted by K W Johnston:
Holy $#!& that NECG bottom metal is expensive!! Then again, if you've decided you want a 500 Jeffrey you already know building it, shooting it, or hunting Africa with it is all expensive.

Understand that’s a Prechtl. Not a local-one off machine shop making them for NECG, not even Recknagel. Prechtl and Mayfair are who WR, Holland and Holland and Purdey use. A Mayfair is over 4k. Just the cost of doing (German) business.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Understand that’s a Prechtl. Not a local-one off machine shop making them for NECG,

Are you 100 percent sure???

First point: I completely agree that metalsmiths and machinists are undervalued. The custom trade does not exist without these custom parts, period! They absolutely should be fairly compensated for there skills.

Second point: Read my first point again please.

Third point: A plumber who charges $85 an hour is usually a thing of necessity. You need one, then you really really need one and cant do without em'....In contrast, custom Rifle work is not a necessity. It's a luxury thing. If a fella looks at the cost and decides its too much expense, then he will just have to forget about it and walks away. Meanwhile if you have water leaking under the house you gotta pay that plumber no matter how big of a bill he throws at you.

So you guys that handle machinist works are in a rough spot. Yes your skills and time are valuable. However if you quote someone too high of a price for a custom part then the customer might say forget about it. Figuring a price point is a tough dilemma I bet. It's a like a tricky balancing act.... I think the preorders or a group buy thing might help you guys out some, but I'm not gonna say it for sure.

Final Point: Read my first point all over again.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Understand that’s a Prechtl. Not a local-one off machine shop making them for NECG,

Are you 100 percent sure???

It states right on the page it’s Prechtl - unless theres wizardy on the back end i;m unaware of...And NECG used to offer complete Prechtl actions, but no longer do. That were in the 6k range.

quote:

Originally posted by K W Johnston:
custom Rifle work is not a necessity.

It is for the gunmaker and their family.

I do agree with most of your points except for

quote:

Originally posted by K W Johnston:
you gotta pay that plumber

you don't. you could do it your self. This is precisely what happens to the custom gun trade. It can be a fun hobby that doesn't require any income stream generated from it. There's a lot of really talented guys that don't have to make a dime at it. They don't have the same excess talent pool in Germany as they tightly regulate who can get licensing. Not complaining here, just pointing out why pricing differs so much from the USA to across the pond. The real benefit of the exceptionally talented hobby guys here in the US is that it elevates the level of US custom guns through tough competition.

quote:

Originally posted by K W Johnston:
I think the preorders or a group buy thing might help you guys out some, but I'm not gonna say it for sure.

I did that here about 20 years ago after showing off my own custom MiniX 223. There were about 15 guys that happily sent checks and patiently waited for their unique custom MiniX floormetal. The back story on this is that I spent the time engineering and CAD drawing and prototyping the floormetal AS A HOBBY. I had a day job working for DArms that barely paid the bills for a single bachelor with no kids. However I did have the run of the machine shop after hours for personal projects. (hobby time) By the time I ran the parts for the guys here on AR, I had a real job with great bennies and a great paycheck that afforded me to start collecting machines (as a hobby) I had acquired a small CNC machining center that was rode hard and put up wet too many times. Surface finishes not so great but I could take the free time to hand polish the tooling marks. All the time never having to rely on the income from these parts to pay the bills.

Fast forward about 20 years with a boy in college and another senior in HS, I've got more, better, paid off machines. Just less free time for my latest hobby of customizing the Mini Howa. The climate around the forums has changed as well concerning custom machined parts. It seems that there are several that jump at the chance to flame and cross post to several forums. 20 years ago I had 15 guys in a week jump at the chance of owning a cool little custom floormetal for the MiniX. Now days after showing some pics of my cool little Mini Howa custom parts that I created during my hobby time the emails I get concerning the parts mostly fit the same form letter.

"Got any parts done and for sale yet?"

I'm not frustrated with the guys that actually want the parts. It's just that they have been jaded with some of the flaming that goes round into holding their cards closer to their vest.

Whenever I get around to producing my hobby parts I'll probably end up eating all the time for R&D, fixtures & programming and just sell the parts for the time & materials it takes to run them. Not the best business model, but hell, it's just a hobby.

I am one of the fortunate guys with James's mini X bottom metal.
He knows how to change the injectors in a Duramax also.

$85\hr for a plumber? Wow, and I thought our cost of living was cheap! Last plumber I had do work for me was $150/hr CASH. And that was a 3 month wait for him to do the job.

Something to consider when he showed up with a bag of tools that couldn’t have amounted to $3k and I've got a shop with just a touch more?

I found from my experience that group buys don’t really work very well. A great example is the Ed LaPour 1917 bolt shrouds I am in the process of making. I had 17 people commit to buying them, 3 followed through and sent payment.

The above discussion is why I worked for industry. They paid more and provided steady work. The only gun work I did was my own or friends if I could find the time.

Dave