Wow.. long topic.

Who here has built a custom rifle ( or uses a factory one ) with open sights only?

- What are your reasons?

- Are there situations you feel its a hindrance?

- Are scopes a requisite in todays hunting?

quote:

- Are scopes a requisite in todays hunting?

For the world I hunt in they are. A scope gives me a far better picture of the target and that's a safety thing if nothing else, and a scope allows me far better precision in defining the aim point.

While I'm pushing 70 these days, it's nothing new as I've been of this attitude since I was 16!

It is much easier to shoot with a scope but open sights or shooting with iron sights is opening up a whole aspect of the rifle.You are getting involved in something that is very complex,and that offers an endless challenge.
Open sights are very quick when shooting at very close distances-within 25yds.
At longer distance,once you master open sights you will have the confidence to shoot as if you were using a scope.
Shooting offhand presents an additional challenge.

I still have my first 2 rifles; a single shot 22 lr I got for Christmas when I was 6 years old and a lever action 30/30 I bought at a farm auction when I was about 12 years old. I keep them with open sights for nostalgia reasons even though I'm having more and more trouble seeing the rear sight. Most of the rifles I have bought or built recently have also had iron sights on them even though I almost always hunt using a scope. I'm holding out on the principle that handguns should have iron sights but I must admit that I am building a single shot hunting pistol that will have a red dot on it. Is my fading vision the beginning of the end of principle?

My current favorite from a couple of years ago. It wears a scope during deer season.

I had Dakota build me a 404 Jeffery on a Safari action. It weighs 8.5 lbs and is a joy to carry.

I have taken it to Zambia for the past two years (2014, 2015) and have taken two Buffalo with it.

It has open express sights and no scope. The two Buffalo were shot at 80 yds and 60 yrds. I am 64 years old and feel confident with the open sights up to about 100 yrds on an animal the size of a Buffalo.

I especially feel confident with the sights due to the flourescent orange fiber optic front sight against the vertical white line rear sight. REALLY easy to see.

I have four rifles that are not scoped: 404 Jeffery, 458 Lott, 470 Capstick and 505 Gibbs.

Starting at calibers 375 and less, I scope my rifles. I should also mention that I have never taken just one rifle on safari to use for everything. If I take one of my open sighted rifles, I always take a medium bore with a scope. Last year, I took a 338 WM with the 404J. This year, I took a 35 Whelen with the 404J. In the past, I have taken a 375 with a 458 Lott, etc. That way, I can use the open sighted rifle, or if the shot is too far, I trade off with my gunbearer wife who carries my medium bore with a scope.

For me, having an open sighted rifle with no scope, bases or rings, allows for a lighter rifle. I had Dakota build me the 458 Lott also on a Safari action, and it too weighs 8.5 lbs. I belong to the philosophical group of 'recoil is temporary, gravity is constant'. My 505 Gibbs weighs 9.5 lbs.

This works for me, but we all hunt differently, so it certainly won't work for everybody.

Good luck on your quest!

This is a .35 Whelen built by Duane Wiebe that I use for elk. Why; because I can.

I used the range finder after the shot, 205 yards with express sights.

I have a G&H 30-06 with of course the Lyman 48 sight on the receiver that I really want to hunt with but don't. I have the idea to take it to Africa like Hemingway but to intentionally reduce my range opportunities is tough. I really like the clean lines and weight though. I also like the idea of hunting deer here with my Winchester 30-30 but don't. If I had a lot of hunting days and opportunities it might be different.

I love iron sights and have them on most of my rifles. Every custom rifle I own has iron sights. I have even taken quite a lot of game with iron sighted firearms over the years. With the exception of my Sharps or Win 1886, I have a scope on everything. Aging has affected my ability to see a consistent and proper POA alignment on the target some days. I know that and my shooting logs remind me of those "bad eye days". For that reason, I prefer scopes for most situations.

"Man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry, 1973 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG2cux_6Rcw

But I do love the look of good irons and practice with them often, "just in case". I had a horse lose its footing and roll with my rifle in the scabbard. I removed the scope (QD rings; big dent on the bell) and hunted the rest of the day. I was using a HS Precision stocked Rem 700 in 35 whelen. When we got back to the cabin that evening, I put on the 4x backup scope I had brought with me and checked the zero before heading back up the mountain. I was well prepared as I had good eyes and a lot of practice with irons in those days but I still wanted the optics.

SKB: Great shot on a beautiful trophy with a classic rifle.

Loud-n-boomer: Love the 1895. Absolutely stunning work and you picked a great cartridge.

My 585 HE is not D&T for a scope....strictly an open-sight rifle.

My humble opinion only:

From an aesthetic standpoint, no scope made has ever helped the looks of a fine rifle ! A really beautiful rifle is quite often overwhelmed by a big ol' scope sitting on top of it. It will draw your eyes away from the nice wood and metalwork of the gun. Without a scope to clutter things up, you get a much cleaner and more stylish look. A lightweight stalking rifle equipped with a peep sight, or a big bore express both have a sleek look without scopes.

From a functional standpoint, a rifle carries in the hand sooo much better without a scope. Open sights are fast, weatherproof, and do not effect the balance point of the rifle. With open sights you must practice! If you practice enough during the off season, open sights will not be the handicap most believe them to be. It adds an element to the hunt I personally enjoy.

The value of a scope cannot be denied. They have there place for bean fields, plains, and mountain hunting. The majority of hunters will shoot better with one. I will use a scope myself when the situation calls for one. However, I just have so much more fun hunting without them !

KW, welcome to the forum. The trick here is to learn from the best and ignore the rest! :-)

All the rifles I build and those I hunt with have iron sights, mostly for backup, but in my case I mostly use a scope for backup and my irons to hunt with, depending of course on what and where I'm hunting..Mostly in Africa I shoot my irons and have a scope handy for long shots at targets of opertunity...In my Texas deer blind I use irons and scope backup..In the open sage brush or the rimrocks country I use the scope with irons for back up..I like having the option of both..

I have a few iron sighted guns only, a Win. 71, a couple of Win. mod. 94s in 30-30 and one in 25-35, and I have Scoped Sav. 99s in .308 and 250-3000 with iron sight options.

I would never scope my double rifles, that's akin to child molestation, and sodomy!

Why, in most cases, subject yourself to one or the other? they both have their place. However I must confess I have been on many hunts with only iron sights, and I grew up shooting irons, never owned a scope until I was a senior in highschool, and didn't much care for it then. Got more into scopes about 40 maybe 50 years ago as best I recollect..

A couple of old factory rifles that I use with open sights. Although I'm going to fit a sporter stock and scope on this SMLE for my son.


And this is my favourite. A Mauser Vergueiro

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
- Are scopes a requisite in todays hunting?

only If you want life to be easier.
Plenty of bow hunters still killing with open sights, so no reason a person
cannot discipline themselves to strictly using OS on a rifle.

The convenience of scopes and sliced bread made me lazy from a young age...

even the ordinary modern centrefire with open sights has made life much easier than
the higher limitations imposed on a person throwing a primitive hand spear.
Then you have modern compound bows that send a small spear efficiently and accurately.

My Springfield sporter has a Lyman 48 and a Jaeger sidemount for a scope. I really prefer how the rifle looks and handles with the iron sight and do most of my shooting with it. I have the scope for shooting at longer ranges and poor light and for 68 year old eyes.

Jerry Liles

Jerry, I'm with you on that.

Hat's off to all y'all who use iron sights!!! I just can't do it any more and gave up years ago. And that is well before I accepted the fact I needed glasses.

Again, hats off to y'all!!!

Frankly 99% of my hunting would be considered open range, so other than my hog guns, none of my customs have iron sights. I do have iron back ups on my .375 H&H and my Rigby.

If anything, I'm having difficulty adjusting to wearing glasses. After 10 years of squinting I finally got glasses one year ago and for the life of me I just can't seem to get comfortable shooting- the top rim of the frames annoys the fk out of me with my customary head tilt. (straight stocks with no drop and low 42 mm scopes...I'd hate to have to restock my rifles and/or raise the scopes to get my head more upright.)

It has frustrated me to the point of not going to the range, even though I know I need more range time to get used to them.

Any tips would be helpful.

Lots of good information here.


I was planning putting a Peep/Ghost sight on the rear bridge of a Mauser rifle.

I have not tried it, but I have talked to people who hunt with that exclusivly, and swear by it out to 150-200 yards. The only "drawbacks", are with poor light situations and or when you have to shoot throug foliage.

Blue wilderbeast


Warthog.


I have shot a few animals with open sights. I don´t need to I just do it to give myself a challenge....and it´s a Classic way of shooting.

The above animals were shot with my .333Jeffery. The Black wilderbeast at 175meters and the warhog at about 60 meters.

Nothing as exotic as most show but at 185yds I was pleased with the result. One of four taken that day with my 7x57 DWM

That would be me.
I had Lon Paul build me a trim 416 at a little over 8.5 pounds.
It has Joe Smithson rings and bases but I leave the open ghost ring sight as the primary sighting system.
It can be removed and fits nicely in the jerry fisher grip cap.

I've made some nice shots with those open sights. Some accurate and some very rapid.

I find it satisfying but sometimes frustrating to hunt with open sites



Use with Open sight rifles. Some custom made and some as they come;

Three buffalo in under one minute. .505 SRE with Lyman 48 rear, Redfield Sourdough front sights.

I have a Savage 24V with a folding peep partway down the rifle barrel that's mostly used that way. I do have a Weaver 2-7X on quickie mounts for longish shots, but the rifle barrel is a .223 rebored for 6x45mm. It's meant to be a sub-200-yard gun and doesn't need a scope that often.

Then there's the shotgun barrel underneath, and it's not so hard to follow a duck with a peep sight...

For me, a rifle just doesn't feel right with a scope on it makes it difficult to carry one handed. Everything I own (with the exception of one .22) has a peep sight. I find iron sights make it much easier to acquire the target quickly, and also make it possible to be your own spotter when long range shooting. I shoot with both eyes open, which helps. Hard to do with a scope.

This spring, I was out in the desert to record the sight elevation on a couple of rifles at 1000 yards. I do this so I can make a "key" with steps milled into it corresponding to various distances. Using the Lyman push button peep sight, you elevate the sight, slide the key under it, and lower the sight until it stops against the appropriate step... and Bob's your uncle! Anyway, there were three young guys (with that "just back from the Sandbox " look who were shooting various sniper stuff- AR-10s, Remington 700s, and a Barrett Light .50, all with high dollar copes and bipods.

I was having trouble spotting my shots at a piece of wood at 1000 yards, so when they took a break I walked over and asked if somebody would spot for me. The first shot hit the ground about 50 feet short of their torso-sized gong. I brought the sight up a couple of clicks and the second shot was about a foot wide at 9 o'clock, which really got their attention. The third shot was a hit. They were impressed!

I let them try it. Had to explain how to use the sights it seems the Army doesn't teach anything but optical sights these days. After a few shots they were having the time of their lives hanging the gong. The rifle was a Winchester 54 (circa 1929) in .30/06 with a Lyman peep sight. They just couldn't get over the fact that you could hit things at that distance without optics.

Then, I really messed with their minds I let them have a go with a Krag carbine- same sights shooting 206 grain cast booklets at 2000 fps. Yup- they were hitting it with that, too. In fact, they were doing as good or better with iron sights as they were with 6x24scopes. It felt good to "school" the young pups!

All in all, they managed to shoot as well-if not better with iron sights than they were doing with their stuff including the Barrett with 24x magnification.

I like iron sights.

Porosonik.

I have five custom built rifles, none of which has optical or electronic sights, all of which are single shots. My three Shiloh Sharps have 30-inch barrels, MVA tang sights, and Lyman 20 MJT target globe front sights. My two Alexander Henry .72-caliber muzzleloading express rifles are still in the "being built" stage.

Among reasons for avoiding optical/electronic sights is I sport hunt. Executing something at a range where the victim has zero possibility of detecting me I do not identify as "sporting." It might very well be superior [target] shooting, but is it sporting? Having more than, say, two shots at the quarry significantly reduces that quarry's "sporting chance." Concomitantly, my single shots also require me to pay close attention to my shot - I will not have a second chance other than an extremely close range finishing shot. And that shot allows me the 40-60 seconds necessary to load.

What I'm attempting to describe is minimizing the effect of our modern world on hunting. Were there no grocery stores, anything goes. But that's not sport; it's business. By limiting the effective range of my rifle-sight combination to within the limit of the quarry's ability to detect me, I've - within broad limits - evened the odds. And having done that, any animal I take becomes a memorable trophy.

One key detail that I have not yet mentioned is my insistence on having my one shot be a cruncher. Having the animal run 500 yards before keeling over here in western Montana is likely to translate to a 10-hour job to get the animal or animal parts from ravines normally found only in nightmares. This detail accounts for .54-caliber 525-grain bullets and .72-caliber 775-grain bullets. Yes, part of my sport hunting is pleasantly reminding myself that "there's no substitute for cubic inches" in the type of larger game hunting I do.

I hope I've responded to your query with rationality.

20150807_091455 by adshools, on Flickr

Didn't build it for open sights but used them the once - was surprisingly easy on this at 60yards.

Little new was said - all to the point!

I like the citations of Capstick and Pondoro ref. use of scopes.
Both maintain you see better with a scope and thus you also hit better. True.

The open sights have some virtues - especially speed and not blocking the view of sight at short distance. In the woods this is a real benefit.
With practice, big game can well be hunted up to 150 metres, and smaller up to 100 (with good sights and a proficient shot even longer - those would be my limitations).

My custom Winchester is fitted with open sights though usually I shoot it with a red dot sight.
My non-custom Winchester is open sights only and I used it to take my biggest moose thus far. Also I took my first moose with open sights.

I started my shooting with very plain air rifles so I'm very much used to open sights - in fact less so to scopes. Thus it's not a hindrance to me per se. Also, I'm a keen pistol shot so I use open sights very well.

1st moose



Custom Winchester



- Lars/Finland

quote:

I find it satisfying but sometimes frustrating to hunt with open sites

Agree mate but if I was hunting the creek beds in the build up of the NT I would grab that little Vergueiro before my scoped 6.5. Plus its a bit of a challenge.

Took a stroll on some public land near my house last night. Bumped two young spike bull elk, this guy and a couple more young bucks. A nice night out in the woods and something for the freezer as well. Open sights at about 75 yards.

I was raised on iron sights , Patridge type so ,making a rifle with irons was no big deal.Besides all my handguns also have patridge sights !! For rifle 100 yds with irons and 60 yds with handgun is fine .Better with ideal conditions !
I recommend 1/8" square front and 1/8" square notch. For a GHOST ring ,1/8" square front and 3/16 "-1/4" hole with thin ring.
Works for me !

I've yet to shoot a big game animal with anything BUT iron sights in any of my own rifles- and I've shot a good few of them like most here on a few different sides of the world. I've used borrowed scoped rifles, and when younger used scopes a bit, but ever since making my own path in hunting it's always been irons. I grew up hunting that way on the farm and it just feels right. I do a lot of mountain hunting these days, and after a good deal of frustration on sheep the day is coming when I'll use glass. Still hope to irons a sheep here in BC.

Like some choose archery, I choose irons, it's my challenge and preference.

Here's a custom I cottaged industried, I did the stock, two other shops contracted for the metal work, to help me put my vision for it together, it's a 7x57 and it has already hunted Moose and Grizzly.

Here's a shooter's point of view video I did wearing a camera on my chest while iron sight shooting a reach gemsbok with a double rifle. TO be completely frank irons are no limitation to the hunter willing to practice with them, I've shot them to 1000 yards (full target sights to be clear, not sporting rifles), but you do need the eyes and patience for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWaZk1MGPuY

I can see a possible need for open sights when used on dangerous game but for almost everything else a scope takes the advantage (usually even on DG).

Open sights are fun to use (like a nice toy) and many derive satisfaction from their use but a scope will trump for everything I've done my whole life, even very close range at moving animals.

If the shooter likes the challenge of open sights, I totally understand! I hunt with a bow for the came reasons... not because of the advantage of archery tackle.

Hate if you wish but this is just my 2 cents backed up by experience in the field... not on the computer or drawing board.

Zeke

I have a Springfield Custom made back in the 1950's that is a 35 Whelen with Lyman Peep and Bead front. I would rather have a Sourdough Partridge or Blade front but the bead works out to 250 yard on deer using Cast loads. Love to carry the old heavy, long beautiful thing with my hand wrapped all the way around it. Love to shoot 290 grain cast loads through whitetail and then eat them. It also has a G&H side mount with a 4x Heinsoldt scope but it sets in the gun box the vast majority of the time. My favorite rifle hands down.

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I can see a possible need for open sights when used on dangerous game but for almost everything else a scope takes the advantage (usually even on DG).

Open sights are fun to use (like a nice toy) and many derive satisfaction from their use but a scope will trump for everything I've done my whole life, even very close range at moving animals.

If the shooter likes the challenge of open sights, I totally understand! I hunt with a bow for the came reasons... not because of the advantage of archery tackle.

Hate if you wish but this is just my 2 cents backed up by experience in the field... not on the computer or drawing board.

Zeke

Can also say from a good deal of experience Zeke there are distinct advantages to irons; IF you have the eyes for them.

When guiding, scopes are useless in my eyes, I'm there to fix close range grizzly problems or follow up from close. I'm not going to help someone put a goat down at 475 yards... that's the client's hunt and job, not into shooting client's animals. So the scope, bases, and rings is a pound I don't need to carry, that catches on bush, gets wet optics (on the north coast BC/Alaska, where it rains the vast majority of the time), more screw connections and mechanisms to bump out of alignment... Then the whole situational awareness aspect, irons you're in it just as when you stand there, optics, even at 1.1X change things that little bit. Yes, they work and yes they're a great tool, but by no means are they superior to iron sights for everything- vice versa is of course true. I'll agree MOST shooters today do significantly better with scopes. It's just the world we now live in, Bell didn't need a scope, and he'd tell you it's useless I'm sure for what he did if alive today. Set your rifle to your applications, a good few still call for irons.

I enjoy the slim, light, snag free and far more durable iron sights. They're also a great tool for general hunting, especially in jess or alders. They put a practiced hunter at zero disadvantage compared to optics inside 200 yards and in fact present advantages of their own. Moral? Run your personal preference, regardless of your experience, be it drawing board, African dangerous game, or small game hunting. All I want to see a client do in show up with the rig they are most comfortable with, not what the message board told them is the only smart choice. For a good few with eyes 20/15 and better irons still rule and with very fair reasoning.

For those who use a peep sight, do you prefer a Post or bead (ivory or gold?) front sight?

I prefer the NECG gold faced post patridge front sight in a soldered on barrel band. I buy them in the tallest size, .500 high..so I can "file" them to an exact zero and keep my rear sights low as possible..I use the combo mostly with a Talley QD peep sight that works in conjunction with a Talley @D scope mounts.

I like the fact that a proper iron sight is all but indestructible unless you abuse it and seldom if ever loses its zero.. I like a peep sight as well as a barrel banded rear sight, but want only one leaf, and both be adjustable for windage by tapping it one way or the other and with the filed down partridge front it will never go out of zero short of warping stocks or a catastrophy..I also use well cured wood to prevent that, and good wood is as stable as any stock material IMO..

I use my rifles hard, and believe in fix'en them before you hunt. Same with scopes, get it right. I like the ease and carry along with the balance of a iron sighted rifle..

I also want the option of instant or near instant use of either scope or irons.

quote:

Originally posted by Angus Morrison:

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I can see a possible need for open sights when used on dangerous game but for almost everything else a scope takes the advantage (usually even on DG).

Open sights are fun to use (like a nice toy) and many derive satisfaction from their use but a scope will trump for everything I've done my whole life, even very close range at moving animals.

If the shooter likes the challenge of open sights, I totally understand! I hunt with a bow for the came reasons... not because of the advantage of archery tackle.

Hate if you wish but this is just my 2 cents backed up by experience in the field... not on the computer or drawing board.

Zeke

Can also say from a good deal of experience Zeke there are distinct advantages to irons; IF you have the eyes for them.

When guiding, scopes are useless in my eyes, I'm there to fix close range grizzly problems or follow up from close. I'm not going to help someone put a goat down at 475 yards... that's the client's hunt and job, not into shooting client's animals. So the scope, bases, and rings is a pound I don't need to carry, that catches on bush, gets wet optics (on the north coast BC/Alaska, where it rains the vast majority of the time), more screw connections and mechanisms to bump out of alignment... Then the whole situational awareness aspect, irons you're in it just as when you stand there, optics, even at 1.1X change things that little bit. Yes, they work and yes they're a great tool, but by no means are they superior to iron sights for everything- vice versa is of course true. I'll agree MOST shooters today do significantly better with scopes. It's just the world we now live in, Bell didn't need a scope, and he'd tell you it's useless I'm sure for what he did if alive today. Set your rifle to your applications, a good few still call for irons.

I enjoy the slim, light, snag free and far more durable iron sights. They're also a great tool for general hunting, especially in jess or alders. They put a practiced hunter at zero disadvantage compared to optics inside 200 yards and in fact present advantages of their own. Moral? Run your personal preference, regardless of your experience, be it drawing board, African dangerous game, or small game hunting. All I want to see a client do in show up with the rig they are most comfortable with, not what the message board told them is the only smart choice. For a good few with eyes 20/15 and better irons still rule and with very fair reasoning.

I think I understand your position so I'll respectfully ask you to refer to line #1 of my opined post. The very situation you cited would fall well within these boundaries.
I completely understand where you're coming from and why you use what you do. I also completely understand why I use what I do and why I know what I know.
Zeke