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I've become fascinated with building a lightweight rifle after reading about the NULA rifles. They produce 5 pound rifles that are very accurate, so I am told. I have investigated titanium actions and have found a couple of makers who will deliver Remington clones weighing 19 ounces with a Titanium bolt, or 23 ounces with a steel bolt. Compare that to about 32 ounces for a steel Remington Long action.Remington bottom metal components add about 7 ounces. I have found a carbon fiber stock for a Remington at about 16 ounces. Add a trigger (2 ounces) and a barrel (32-40 ounces)and you have a complete rifle less scope and mount. My favorite lightweight scope is the Leupold VX 3i 2.5-8 at 11.3 ounces. Aluminum Talley one-piece rings and base probably add 3 ounces. So made of steel, that produces a 5.6 pound bare rifle or a 6.5 pound rifle with scope. With a Titanium action, the weight drops by about a half pound. Doing most of the work myself, I can build a steel gun for around $1300 without paint or other finish. Titanium would add around $900 to that cost. Most of my current hunting guns weigh over 8 pounds with a scope, and a couple that I sold recently weighed over 9 pounds. I don't think that a half pound of weight savings is worth $900, so the steel action will be the basis of this build. So I'd like to embark on a project to build a lightweight gun in .30/06 with a target weight of 6.5 pounds with scope and mount. I see some pretty good prices out there for used Remington 700s, but I'm going to begin rather with a new Remington stainless steel action that already has a Pro-Trigger installed. I can buy factory Remington bottom metal and the magazine box, follower and spring to match from Brownells. I'm going to hold off on that bottom metal until I see what a detachable magazine bottom metal would cost and what it would weigh. I already have a carbon fiber stock blank on order. So my next acquisition will be a barrel. I'll choose stainless steel to match the action and I'll make it 22 inches long and very thin for weight savings. Then I'll full-length bed it as Melvin Forbes does for stability and potential accuracy. I would like to read you thoughts of what I've considered so far, and a suggestion as to a good barrel to use would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has data to suggest that my weights are off, I would appreciate suggestions/corrections before I go too far down the wrong path. Thanks in advance for you participation. Allan Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | ||
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Don't know what caliber you are looking for, but you could ask, in the classifieds, if someone would want to sell their "proven accurate" Kimber Montana or Mountain Ascent. I don't know that I'd spin the dice on a new Kimber lightweight, but if someone has an accurate Kimber they are willing to part with, I'd save myself the trouble, and buy the Kimber. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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I can tell you that a factory Remington long action in a BDL pattern Manners SL stock with factory bottom metal, Timney trigger, a #1 contour Douglas barrel at 22" in .270 Win, plus Leupold 3-9X40 VX-2 weighs right at 7 lbs. A few ounces could be shaved if I had used Talley lightweight rings (I used a Leupold mount), gone as an ADL and put on a lighter webbing sling. Jeremy | |||
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Your dream gun is already built by Oregunsmithing, LLC. Wayne York has been building this very design for over 20 years that I know of. He also owns Pendelton Composite Gunstocks. Your might give him a call. 1-541-278-4177 He is an accuracy nut. His guns shoot or they do not leave the shop. Dennis Earl Smith Professional Member ACGG Benefactor Life NRA Life NAHC | |||
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I usually can't buy a gun for the price I can build it myself. As it was not Germaine to the instant discussion, I didn't mention that I am left handed, but it affects my decisions on components and on buying used guns. Would the above poster mind taking the stock off and tell me what his 700 weighs naked? Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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I'd really like to know what it will "weigh" after it is together without scope. I've weighed components before and it seems heavier after completion. | |||
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You can't create mass, so the weight increase must come from bedding material. I've wondered about how much weight the bedding material adds. The stock will be generously inletted with bedding used to fill the gaps. Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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My last one must have been pregnant at completion. | |||
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Allan, I've been down that path before, but presently don't own any ultralight rifles. I find they're difficult to hold steady, even with support, and they limit you to calibers in the 260, 6.5 CM, 308 class, as recoil of even some moderate calibers can be brutal in a 6-lb rifle. I've had lightweights by Lex Webernick (Rifles Inc), Kimber Montana, Rem Model 7 KS, and a few others. I'll take mine at 7 1/2-8 lbs. | |||
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Having built two light weights, if you really want to go as light as possible. Build it on short action (308 class) not 30-06 and build it in an ADL blind magazine with an aluminum trigger guard. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I believe John Pierce said his Ti receiver is 16oz lighter than the Remington. | |||
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I don't know what it weighs  | |||
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Is that a rifle or a toothpick? I have a Bansner 308 already. I want an '06. Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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One thing that several people have mentioned that add weight are recoil pads, up to 12 oz, and scopes. More than one fellow has added a 30 ounce scope to a 90 ounce rifle. The 16 ounce weight savings of Titanium of Pietce rifles reduces the price of Titanium to $900 per pound! Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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You can get pretty light with the right components. Start with a Colt Light Rifle, not sure if they came left hand though. Second choice I would find another light action and do a blind magazine. Use a Wildcat Composites stock, mine was 16 ounces to start, with pad and bedding it is about 19 ounces, Talley lightweight rings are the "go to" for strength and lightweight they weigh 3 ounces less than Leupold dual dovetail. 2.3 vs 5.2. I used a Leupold 3-9x40 scope and although "full size" it only weighs 11.2 ounces. If that is too heavy you can go to a fixed 4 power and save 2 ounces I believe. Use a "featherweight" contour barrel. I've had my 30/06 for 30 plus years and last year decided to rebarrel it and put it together as light as practical. I used the above components however I was starting with my Winchester push feed action which is not the lightest and I used a 23" barrel featherweight contour, don't let anyone tell you light rifles don't shoot, this one is 7 pound 5 oz. if starting with a lighter action you could easily be under 7 pounds.   | |||
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Tikka T3 SuperLight, put into McMillan Edge, Leupold 2,5x20 in Tikka Ringmounts. Done! 6 - 6.5 Lbs Much better action then Rem 700, MUCH better trigger, very good barrels, SLICK as snot! | |||
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I had Jim Kobe build me a sheep rifle a few years back. Rem 700 stainless ADL action Mcmillan stock, their lightest #2 shilen 24" Talley LW rings Leupold 2.5-8X Chambered in 270 WSM It was very light, but I do not recall actual weight It was quite accurate and killed a dall and mountain caribou Before I had this built, I bought a Kimber montana and could not get it to shoot under 1.5" even after returning it to Kimber. NRA Patron member | |||
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I believe the now defunct Forbes Rifles LLC made left hand clones of NULA rifles. I believe Melvin's shop made the stocks. Maybe someone has one of these that is accurate that they might sell. I believe poor barrel quality is part of what led to this company's downfall, but some of their rifles were tack drivers. Like Kimber lightweights, it is the luck of the draw. One of the keys to NULA accuracy is the fact that their stocks are stiffer than their barrels and the barrels are full length bedded, with an oscilloscope used to tune barrel vibration (so I've read). This might be another time and cost saving alternative. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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G-broker has both a Forbes 20b in 308, and a 24b 35 Whelen for $1300 a piece. I here NULA will rebarreled these these for a fair price, if they don't shoot, and you'd be over $1500 south of the price of a new NULA. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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If it shows bad on the scope, what did they do next? | |||
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John Barsness mentioned, in a magazine article, that Melvin Forbes uses an oscilloscope to aid in tuning NULA's. He didn't mention how it's done . Folks such as yourself can better surmise how it's done than I. I hear Mr. Forbes is a super nice and kind man. I bet a phone call to him would get you an answer to your question. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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Vol717, I do not own one of Wayne Yorks creations. However I have held many of them in the past 20 years. The last 338 I held weight 6lbs. 6oz. It had a target with the gun and Wayne shot it. It was a three shot group under .5" I know Wayne can shoot and I know he has had good training. His mentor was Bob West. I am unable to tell you the weight of his actions. Therefore, I gave you his information for you to use. Dennis Earl Smith Professional Member ACGG Benefactor Life NRA Life NAHC | |||
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By the way, left or right makes no difference. Wayne does both. He builds guns, he does not sell parts. Dennis Earl Smith Professional Member ACGG Benefactor Life NRA Life NAHC | |||
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Ed Shilen gave me a headset attached to a stethoscope. With a tuner on the barrel you could lightly strike the barrel with a small brass hammer. You would adjust the tuner until it was just a dead thud. I never saw Melvins with a tuner. That was my reason for posting. | |||
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Butch, I hear ya' on the weight gain when the rifle is complete. I assume it's some sort of quantum physics thing which is beyond the understanding of my feeble intellect. I have personally seen a scope gain weight just by being mounted on my silohuette rifle so it happens. I may try attaching a helium balloon next. Regards, Bill | |||
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I read a long time ago about the hanger trick barreled action in a vise, hang coat hangers on the barrel, tap the barrel, the hanger will walk together at the harmonic points. | |||
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Rich, It is a.250 Savage on a shortened SR M98, and it weighs 4 pounds 12 ounces w/steel bottom metal & scope mounts. | |||
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A friend of mine had Wayne build a 280AI with composite stock. I forget what action it's on; but my friend is quite pleased with it and it is very accurate. If I were to have a rifle built, that's who I would contact. | |||
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This year at the DSC show I had a booth next to MG Arms out of Spring, Texas. They specialize (like other builders mentioned here) in ultra-light rifles. The primary way that they shed the weight is by skeletonizing the action and bolt. Personally I would think that the loss of rigidity in the receiver would be a detriment to accuracy but they give a 1/2 MOA guarantee with their rifles and after talking with the owner I'm inclined to believe it. As for carbon wrapped barrels, I get mine from Todd Bettin. He uses Satern barrels and wraps them himself. Accuracy has been phenomenal and he is fairly quick at turning them out. Pierce was mentioned above and they are excellent actions. We build a light weight rifle on an aluminum chassis with their actions. 5 lbs 10oz with the short action and 20inch bbl, including Talley aluminum rings. | |||
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How about this: Skip dessert for a year, you'll be healthy enough to lug around an 8 lb rifle | |||
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Duane I'm not sure why you take such exception to people wanting to build light rifles. You build a wonderful product, a talented gunsmith I hear but your favorite rifles do not fill every niche some people want something else, deal with it. Some people that want to carry a rifle in steep Sheep and Goat country want a light rifle, not someone to tell them get in better shape how ridiculous! Some people are already in "sheep" shape and don't need to skip anything, they are just looking to minimize what they carry to excel at what they do. Living out of a pack ounces count, why watch your weight on every piece of gear except your rifle.... | |||
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Touchy! | |||
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My guess is that one of the reasons custom guns with wood stocks aren't as popular as they once were is that they are just too heavy. Good wood is often dense! I have a couple of them and they mostly sit in the safe while synthetic stocked guns get used! By the way, I bought a LH Tikka Lite stainless 30-06, altered my carbon-fiber stock order to one for a Tikka, and ordered another VX3i 2.5-8X36. Talley one piece mounts will complete the package. I think it will come in under 6.5 lb. Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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I could not agree more with those who've found the lightweights not the way to go, and agree much with Duane re: reducing body weight vs. rifle weight. Believe it or not, there are still those of us who find a heavier rifle, even more that 8# believe it or not, to hold easier at the moment of truth. My last 2 hunts out of state were Idaho back-country elk and Kodiak Island mountain goat and carried the same M70 .300 WM at about 8 3/4#. Sure, the super light weights can shoot well, its just that they're harder to hold steady. Just my personal experience after many years. | |||
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We had a customer who was always wanting lighter, he went as far as going to a smaller caliber so the bullets would be lighter. We didn't see him for a while and when he did show we asked what was up? He told us he asked his grandsons "Want to go hunting with grandpa?" His gun is now weightless and he is a happy man. M | |||
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I guess that's the reason the Brits had gun bearers long ago. Any gun is light when you're not carrying it!  Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Years ago I tried the lightweight concept. It was wonderful in every way except when it was time to make the shot. Give me an 8lbs all up rifle and I'm good to go. -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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That's cute. -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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In the process of preparing for this build, I found an Australian company that makes nice aftermarket bottom metal. The company is Atlas worxs. As I can't provide a link here, if you want to find them, you will have to add .com after atlasworxs, and http//www. in front of it. It probably isn't ideal if you want super light weight, but I ordered a bottom metal set that takes AI magazines as I do really like detachable magazines. Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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There are certain limitations to weight and shootability, so shedding weight gives diminishing returns to some extent. That said I've started to really like the idea of lighter rifles, so I recently acquired a Weatherby MkV (6 lug) ultralight in 30-06. It weights a bit more than the advertised 5.75 lb as it has a 24" and not a 22" barrel. This is a worthwhile consideration and handling feels great - but alas I have yet to shoot it. I've also seen, by dropping a Sako AII (short action 308) into a McM Edge, that you can do a great deal with choice of stock, scope and mounts (unfortunately not much choice for Sako). Then there are secondhand Rem Titaniums and Model 7's, the above mentioned Tikka and others as starting points as well. By the way, my understanding was that the Colt Rifle was designed by Forbes and I seem to remember that Ultralight (OULA  ) may have built it. | |||
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