The Persian Mauser's were well-made (hardened right, nicely finished). They are also generally in good shape. VZ24's were getting harder to find, so when I wanted to make a few projects I bought some of the Persian Mauser actions from SAMCO. Neat lion crest on the front receiver ring that I hated to mess up by drilling scope mount holes though.

I think the "D" designation, for a magnum Mauser action was the way the Mark X Interarms actions were listed.

It was a standard commercial 98 with a long box and the front of the action opened up.

SAKO used FN Commercial action with their big caliber export models called High Power rifles. Calibers were .300 H&H and .375 H&H. I have similar action, it is normal lenght m98 action but it has opened to accept 91,5 mm (3,60") ammo which is enough for those mentioned calibers.

You guys are trying to kill me on technicalities/semantics here.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, lays duck eggs, and swims ON the water; it's a duck.

I believe the only confusion is true magnum actions made specific for the cause v "magnumized"
regular actions. Two different birds one would think. --- John

Hmmmm.
Lots of straying from the original post.
I am surprised I am the only vote for the Persian Mauser, as the fit and finish of mine is as good as could be expected, as was the 8 x 57 barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by Ole Miss Guy:
Hmmmm.
Lots of straying from the original post.
I am surprised I am the only vote for the Persian Mauser, as the fit and finish of mine is as good as could be expected, as was the 8 x 57 barrel.

Ole Miss, once the OP said that it was for .375 H&H then it became part of the discussion. The difference with using an FN, Mark-X, or military action, Persian included, is that those actions were engineered and designed for standard cartridges . Those actions all must be altered for the long H&H cartridges. That statement is true whether altered at the factory or by a gunsmith. Actions like the Brevex, Hartman & Weisss, Prechtl, FZH, Satterlee, Mayfair, Granite Mountain, etc. were engineered and designed specifically for long magnum cartridges.

There is nothing wrong with using a standard size Mauser action that has been altered for H&H length cartridges. Countless rifles shooting long magnum cartridges have been built that way. A modified standard size Mauser can be "satisfactory" or "suitable" for building a rifle in .375 H&H. But are those actions "best" for that usage? Not really. The magazines are shallow, cutaways are made in the receiver ring so the cartridges can be loaded and unloaded, the actions are weakened some by cutting away part of the feedramp, etc. True magnum actions, those designed from the get-go specifically for long magnum cartridges, are more robust, have more room for loading and unloading, and will hold more cartridges.

The OP asked which Mauser action is "best" for .375 H&H. So the discussion of Magnum Mauser vs magnumized Mauser IS relevant to the original post.

This is an original, pre-World War I, single square bridge, slant box, stepped receiver ring Oberndorf Magnum Mauser action.



This is a .350 Rigby Magnum built on the above action.



This is a .404 Jeffery built on a single square bridge, straight box Oberndorf Magnum Mauser action.



This is a .416 Rigby Magnum built on a single square bridge Oberndorf Magnum Mauser action.

None of these actions required modification in any way to accommodate the cartridges they were built around. Nevertheless, because they were designed for cartridges with a rim diameter of .532"-.545", they fall into a class designated by Pierre van der Walt as "Stretched Actions" in his book, "African Dangerous Game Cartridges."



This is a .505 Gibbs built on a double square bridge Granite Mountain action. It qualifies as a Magnum action by van der Walt's definition, because it accommodates cartridges with larger rim diameters than the "Stretched Actions".

beautiful rifles, all of them.

By those I am in debate with, since the George Gibbs company only built (to the best of my knowledge) 505 Gibbs on commercialP-14 actions, manufactured to his specs by the factory are they true Magnum actions as well?

While the P14 and M17 are certainly mauseresque, they are not a magnum Mauser. Their length and capacity for housing enormous cartridges doesn't make them a magnum action either. As stated before, the original Oberndorf magnum actions were specifically designed for very long rounds. I wouldn't worry about folks who don't hold the opened up standard actions in high regard. Not worth a pissing match. Just enjoy your action.

Matt

certainly not Mauser, but are they, magnum actions?

As I said, all the Gibbs 505's were built on commercial P-14's. Box is not modified, and nothing needed to be done to fit three rounds of 505 Gibbs in the box.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
... because they were designed for cartridges with a rim diameter of .532"-.545",...

actually the orig. pre-war magnum mausers were factory designed to accommodate a broader size of rim (.522"-.640")

Rigbys 'exclusively' contracted Oberndorf magnum mauser first accommodated the .522" rim .350 RIGBY of 1899,
Rigby then yrs later in 1911, released the .589" rim .416 to fit in the same magnum length action.

Oberndorf also beefed up the left locking lug on its magnum mauser action,
specifically to accommodate the large .640" rim .505 Gibbs.

The .416 Rigby and .505 Gibbs were both released around 1911,
and in 1912, the Oberndorf factory produced its first .416 and .505,...both based on the magnum mauser action.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:

None of these actions required modification in any way to accommodate the cartridges they were built around.

except in the case of the .416 Rigby and .505 Gibbs, where some modifications of the Oberndorf magnum action were required:

-orig. Gibbs magnum mausers in .505 have a clearance radius of metal removed from the rear of the front receiver ring(behind the top lug abutment)
[orig. .416 Rigby magnum mausers also have that cartridge clearance radius machined into them]

-the Oberndorf magnum action also had a specific version of bolt stop/release for the .505,
that differs from the bolt stop/release for the shorter .350 Rigby or H&H cartridges.

## Strangely enough, Hartmann & Weiss who make an authentic version of the magnum mauser action(including beefed left lug)
do not machine a cartridge clearance radius at rear of the front receiver ring for its .416 or .505 chamberings,
However, H&W do remove some of the rear bridge [thus lengthening the feed port] for the .505,
whereas the orig. Oberndorfs in .505 cal I've seen, do not alter/shorten the rear bridge.


Original RIGBY .416 magnum mauser with cartridge clearance radius


Orig. GEORGE GIBBS .505 cal


WESTLEY RICHARDS .505 - based on Hartmann-Weiss magnum mauser action.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
since the George Gibbs company only built (to the best of my knowledge) 505 Gibbs on commercialP-14 actions,

again your knowledge is flawed,
George Gibbs of Bristol 35 Savile Row London W. {1906-1921}, did utilize the M98 for its proprietary release .505
Griffin & Howe also used the Oberndorf magnum action for a number of .505 builds, including the one sold to Hemingway in 1941.



AN original .505 from the Savile Row shop of George Gibbs.

That 350 Rigby is incredible. Just class all the way around

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
That 350 Rigby is incredible. Just class all the way around

Baxter, I provided the action and the original stock. Lon Paul did the rest. Unfortunately, two more such actions and an original stock were in Lon's shop when it burned two years ago.

Metal,

talk to Jim Kobe. He can fix that. He took a seriously ratty OM 70, and made DSB-style bases for it. Turned out beautiful.

quote:

Originally posted by metal:
Picked this one up recently, a Peruvian VZ 32. Quite rare, only 5000 made. Tight as a drum too.
Now, how to blend a rear base into that hump!?

I like that. I wouldn't change a thing on it.

Metal I absolutely agree with TC1 ! There are tons of Mauser actions out there already drilled for scopes. That VZ32 with its small ring and high charger hump is quite unique, and attractive just like it is. Wish it were mine. I think it would be perfect for a slim open sight rifle.

Then again it is yours, so you should make it into whatever you want. If it turns out to be anything like your 7x57 Brazilian...it'll be gorgeous !

Yeah it's a beauty, not sure what to do with it. The bore is good + but the stock is RS.
Might leave it alone if I can find a stock.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
That 350 Rigby is incredible. Just class all the way around

Baxter, I provided the action and the original stock. Lon Paul did the rest. Unfortunately, two more such actions and an original stock were in Lon's shop when it burned two years ago.

That's a shame. At least the 350 made it out.

Do you form brass from 375 by turning off the belt or do you have a stash? Again, that is a stunning rifle, and I love the peep. Everything done right.

I have a small stash. I just had cataract surgery on my right eye, and I'm hoping that I'll soon be able to shoot the rifle from the right shoulder, which I have been unable to do up to now.

I'm hoping to salvage the actions. They weren't warped by the heat, which is certainly a plus. If I can, a 400/350 and a .375 H&H are in the works. In the mean time, if anyone knows of an original stock for a slant box, stepped receiver ring, magnum Rigby action which needs a new owner, I'd like to hear about it.

xausa,

Cataract surgery is quite marvelous nowadays, I'm sure you will be shooting as well as ever, soon.

Could you please measure the width inside the rear of the box of that Granite Mountain .505 Gibbs, and post the measurement here?

Nice rifles!

my 500 Jeffery built on a 1928 VZ24 action.

here is another pic.

Just curious what you had to do to that VZ-24 action to be able to squeeze those .500 Jeff Cases in there?

i didnt have the rifle built, but purchased it and a Searcy 500NE from an estate. not much modification that i can see, but i am a novice to big bolt guns. it only holds 2 down and i like the rifle so much i really dont want to change anything...yet! it needs weight as it only weighs 8.5 lbs. the original owner was a big vuy, near 300 lbs, so i guess the light weight didnt bother him. definitely a joy to carry but a handful to shoot for me at my 150 lbs. i do like shooting it but can only manage 5-6 rounds before it gets a might painful! the gun or myself need some added weight!

I remember vividly when I was a young my Dad bought an old single shot 12 guage for me to use for partridge hunting because he didn't want me taking out his Model 12 Winchester and wrecking it.

Anyway, that gun had a considerable amount of drop at the heel, and the kick hurt like hell.
I had no problem shooting the model 12 though, which had a relatively straight stock.

Maybe you just need a new stock that is fitted to you.

lindy2, i agree with you about the stock. it is something i may do down the road, and maybe get some box work done as well. would be nice if it held 3-4 down. i like the fit of the current stock, i just wish the rifle was a pound or two heavier. i am going to put a mercury reducer in it for now and see how that works.
thanks for your comments! best wishes...

I passed on a beautiful small ring commercial Browning FN in 243 a while back. I never saw one before. It was not a Sako.

Ten matching rifles would be like having 10 girlfriends all the same. With the exception of a set or two of twins, I'd rather have some variety, . However, in the female department, I'm in the "one-rifle" category, but it doesn't hurt to dream .

In my view, the Brazilian Mausers, which were made by DWM (1908) and by Mauser (1935) are the nicest of the military actions. The 1935 is the best, to me, because it is harder and handles high pressures better. The 1908 (DWM) might be a little nicer from a workmanship standpoint but is a little soft and can benefit from re-heat treatment.
I do like the FN commercial actions and will pick them up when I see a deal on one. I don't like the standard length actions opened up for 375-length cartridges but for standard length, they are great.
I don't much care about magnum Mausers one way or another since I have no desire to build rifles for the huge cartridges. I can get everything I need into a standard action so the big ones are of acedemic interest only. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Bill Leeper: I don't much care about magnum Mausers one way or another since I have no desire to build rifles for the huge cartridges. I can get everything I need into a standard action

I still have a few but I'm with you. Really no need for the long actions, some very powerful rounds fit standard length actions, which are lighter, easier to operate, cheaper, more readily available, etc.

Xausa: That .350 Rigby Magnum is the nuts! Just WOW!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
xausa,


Could you please measure the width inside the rear of the box of that Granite Mountain .505 Gibbs, and post the measurement here?

RIP,

Sorry it took so long, but I have had a lot of distractions lately. As best as I could determine, using my old Craftsman vernier calipers, the magazine box on the Granite Mountain action measures 1.040" at the rear and .875" at the front.

Just out of curiosity, I measured a Montana Model 1999 Professional Hunter .505 action, which turned out to be 1.060" at the rear and 1.040" at the front.

I ordered two of those actions when they were still on the drawing board and traded one to Lon Paul, who used it to make a spec rifle which he sold to a PH, if I remember correctly. The other one probably needs a new owner, since I obviously don't need it now.

Bill

xausa,

Thanks for the measurements on the Granite Arms box. Added to my files.
I have a PH action from MRC, and it made a dandy .408 Chey-Tac "sporter" custom built by Rusty McGee.

To start with an FN is not a Mauser, its and FN..although similar they are not the same according to what I have read and been told by some well known smiths, Jack Belk to name one.

My preference is the 1908s, I like the Chileian and the Puruvians, About any Obendorf of that era, but my all time favorite is the little G33-40s..

I like the 1935 FNs...The 1950s make nice rifles, but it seems common knowledge they are not suitable for the hot magnum cartridges, and I have seen them develop headspace in a hurry. Roy Weatherby dropped them for that reason some many years ago. .

The 1909 Argentine is a nice action and suitable for most calibers IMO..

Turkish Mausers are Ok but they are almost pewter under the case hardening I have been told??

The large ring small thread Mausers seem to be sought after by the custom builders.

There are lots of nice 98 usuable Mausers out there, some need to be treated, and in fact its not a bad idea at all with any of them, its cheap process and can't hurt, soften them and do you work then have them hardened to specs. the practice is questionable, depends on who you talk to, one well known source tells me hardening a Mauser is like painting a tin barn! another says its a must?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

IThe 1950s make nice rifles, but it seems common knowledge they are not suitable for the hot magnum cartridges,

A modern process reheat-treat would solve that!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
To start with an FN is not a Mauser, its and FN..although similar they are not the same...

FNs with a H-ring rather than C-ring indicate they not true 100% original mauser design.

But an FN bolt will work in military mauser receivers.

The Mauser98 design was officially contracted out to various manufacturing companies both in Europe and abroad.

and the Belgians had early involvement in the M98.
Ludwig Löwe & Company [which in 1887 purchased major interest in Mauser], was itself 50% owner of FN d'Armes de Guerre,
which was formed in 1889 to manufacture Mauser rifles for Belgium.

xausa, you have exquisite taste in rifles. Thanks for posting photos.

quote:

Originally posted by metal:
Picked this one up recently, a Peruvian VZ 32. Quite rare, only 5000 made. Tight as a drum too.
Now, how to blend a rear base into that hump!?

You could always drill a hole through it and call it a peep sight.

quote:

Originally posted by metal:
Now, how to blend a rear base into that hump!?

I had acces to one of these actions a few years ago.

I was thinking of placing a peep sight "into the carging slot". Just a litte machining, to make it fit. Might take a few tries to get the windage right.