I've thought about this for a long time and only ask this out of curiosity. I am not in the market for a custom rifle, nor probably never will be, so if I'm wasting any builders' time, please forgive me.


When I was younger, I lusted after a custom rifle: a classic custom M70, stocked by one of the greats of the 70s or 80s. I wanted classic lines in the stock, something along the lines O'Connor had. But slowly over time, the customs got more, and more, and more detailed to the point that in my opinion, instead of "form follows function" it appeared as though the opposite had happened. Someone once called it "gingerbread" details not needed in a rifle built for hunting.

So if a guy wanted a custom built today with the classic lines but without the details not necessary in a working rifle, would a top notch builder even build you something like that: courser checkering, floating barrel, glassed recoil lug just to name a few.

Jim Carmichael once wrote that the one thing that contributed most to increased details in a custom was the airplane because the builders could then look at each others stuff and try to outdo each other. Makes sense to me.

So again, just my curiosity on a cold winter day in northern Michigan. thanks all.

Devere, there are many customs built specifically for hunting, without all the sometimes garish "gingerbread" as you say. If you peruse the websites, especially Guns International, I'm sure you could find something to your liking in style and caliber that floats your boat. Unless I was looking for some VERY specific characteristics, I'd save the time and money and find a used custom.

Sounds like basically you want a custom stock, shouldn't be that hard to find some one to make you one that looks nice and fits as well.

eny said "Sounds like basically you want a custom stock, shouldn't be that hard to find some one to make you one that looks nice and fits as well."

+1

Quality is not in the "gingerbread", but rather in the execution. You see a lot of custom rifles where the maker tried to throw the kitchen sink at it, but was unable to execute said kitchen sink to a high level. I suspect the OP wants a classic rifle executed to a high level, without all the unnecessary window treatment. Big difference between that and a run of the mill basic hunting rifle.

I am having such a rifle built now. Winchester 52 stocked by James Tucker. Bartlien barrel, no rib, not even iron sights, just an old Leupold 4x RF scope. Just a Squirrel exterminating machine executed at a high level. About the only bling it will have is a checkered bolt knob and custom bottom metal.

John

quote:

Originally posted by gasgunner:
Quality is not in the "gingerbread", but rather in the execution. You see a lot of custom rifles where the maker tried to throw the kitchen sink at it, but was unable to execute said kitchen sink to a high level. I suspect the OP wants a classic rifle executed to a high level, without all the unnecessary window treatment. Big difference between that and a run of the mill basic hunting rifle.

I am having such a rifle built now. Winchester 52 stocked by James Tucker. Bartlien barrel, no rib, not even iron sights, just an old Leupold 4x RF scope. Just a Squirrel exterminating machine executed at a high level. About the only bling it will have is a checkered bolt knob and custom bottom metal.

John

Perfect John, kinda like my 2 40X customs. I have a checkered bolt knob on one and the other is plain aftermarket by Dan Armstrong, rust blue and walnut from Roger Vardy. Oh I forgot, 3 POS safeties.

I am a function over form guy, I used to lust after custom rifles and high end guns. I owned a few guns that were $9500 new.

At 46 my interest in such things is long over. I think a M70 in a plussed up Boyd's classic stock with computer cut checkering an ebony forend and a metal grip cap would give me 99.9% of what I need.

I have owned a few supergrade m70's from the earlier non-FN modern era. They all sucked and were inletted with a chainsaw.

Looked at quite a few new FN Super Grades and they are really nice for $1800 or so.

Reminds me of the British shotgun trade. Lower grade guns by good makers were still top notch guns. You see them with little engraving, decent wood. They are still built to the maker's highest standards and can usually be bought at a decent discount. Back then the labor was relatively cheap but the components cost was high. Now, when you consider the time and cost of a good stockmaker building a custom stock it seems prudent to go ahead and spend a few extra bucks on a really nice stick of walnut. That gingerbread you are talking about will really start to jump the price up. Checkered bolt, integral quarter rib, sculpted custom rings and bases, custom bottom metal, pedestal sling swivel inletted bases, checkering with ribbons, checkered bolt release, inletted skeleton butt plate and grip cap with the wood checkered, color case hardening on various parts...All of that will cost a lot more than having a nice piece of wood put on a M70 action with factory bottom metal, decelerator pad, no sights, point checkering pattern, match grade barrel and Talley rings and bases. I am sure plenty of good builders will gladly build that gun for a paying customer.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
I am a function over form guy, I used to lust after custom rifles and high end guns. I owned a few guns that were $9500 new.

At 46 my interest in such things is long over. I think a M70 in a plussed up Boyd's classic stock with computer cut checkering an ebony forend and a metal grip cap would give me 99.9% of what I need.

I have owned a few supergrade m70's from the earlier non-FN modern era. They all sucked and were inletted with a chainsaw.

Looked at quite a few new FN Super Grades and they are really nice for $1800 or so.

So you are comparing a "Super Grade" to a custom rifle?

The term "Custom" just means something not available from a mass produced item. It has nothing to do with embellishments, quality or anything else; it only means it is or was, a one of a kind piece, made to some set of specifications and not available off the rack. No proper English Sporting Gentleman would ever be caught dead with an off the rack gun, or suit of clothing. Doesn't mean it is fancy.
If there are several of them assembled in a factory, that isn't custom.
So, of course if you just want a plain hunting rifle, but made to your specifications, then that is still a custom rifle. And of course, if the builder is a hack, it will still be crap, albeit, custom crap.
My clients all seem to want what you describe; (not crap); plain, working rifles, but hand built to their needs, wants, and tastes.

Not sure what all this talk about "gingerbread" is all about.

Oh yes. there was s time the market demand was for skeleton hardware, FDL checkering with ribbons, lightning bolt spacers, blue plastic humming birds..you name it !

Haven't been asked for FDL ribbon checkering for maybe 20 years. Skeleton butt plates and grips caps..very seldom!

The "with good taste" client knows better.

And..to compare prices of 50 years ago with todays economy???? What am I missing?

During the last two years of High School, I laid hardwood floors for $1.90 per hour. That would buy 10 gallons of gas. Now it takes $30-40.00 to buy the same amount....About an hours pay for a lot of tradesman.

Plenty of gunmakers will do what you are asking; some of whom post here on AR. And I think many gunmakers are quite satisfied by building a rifle of this fashion that they know will get used for its intended purpose. I know one that thinks that. I'll opine that finding a gunmaker who has a philosophy and vision of building a rifle that lines out with how you hunt (or how you want/plan to hunt) is going get one a much more fulfilling custom made experience.

As my wife says, "Alot of folks taste is in their mouth only".

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
I am a function over form guy, I used to lust after custom rifles and high end guns. I owned a few guns that were $9500 new.

At 46 my interest in such things is long over. I think a M70 in a plussed up Boyd's classic stock with computer cut checkering an ebony forend and a metal grip cap would give me 99.9% of what I need.

I have owned a few supergrade m70's from the earlier non-FN modern era. They all sucked and were inletted with a chainsaw.

Looked at quite a few new FN Super Grades and they are really nice for $1800 or so.

So you are comparing a "Super Grade" to a custom rifle?

If that is what it seemed that wasn't my intent.

Depending on your budget the newer supergrades or a CNC stock from someone like Boyd's can fit the bill nicely. Especially if you have a pepsi-cola budget.

A friend in Hungary makes stocks for 98's and quite a few other guns with good wood for under $2000. This could be a good source, but it sure isn't a custom rifle. His are entirely CNC.

Here is his website:

https://www.stocon-spt.de/

And a few samples.

Looks like Duane is charging about $8000 for the stock work.

So for most guys on a budget (including me) a supergrade or a plussed up CNC made stock makes a lot of sense.

Not saying it is the equal or anywhere near it.

Saying it makes a lot of sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Looks like Duane is charging about $8000 for the stock work.

So for most guys on a budget (including me) a supergrade or a plussed up CNC made stock makes a lot of sense.

Just saying, your examples are not custom in my estimation. They might be nice hunting rifles, just in another class.

I would like to fill the gas tank at .019'cents as we had enough for everyone. While I am making a rifle on one of the new FM actions for $50 and similar price for a Douglas barrel. This was what we had when I started gunsmithing in 1963. Those days are gone forever!!!

Devere look over on the Gunsmith section and try building your rifle as you have some ideas. Follow the plain instructions that I wrote for beginners to GET STARTED.

I only had time to build maybe 2 custom rifles per year as the company paid me very well to keep the shop running for repairs and warranty work. In 1979 we had 4 full time gunsmiths and we processed about 5,000 guns per year as I had to keep up with the repair tickets. All gunsmiths had been thru a gunsmith school and I was the only one that could do custom gun stocks. The Ewell Cross Gun Shop started in 1947 and I worked for 17 yrs with them. The company paid for Medical insurance, heart attack special insurance, and accident insurance, plus a 2 week vacation per yr. The sales were over $1 million a yr and I had to be able to stop working and help the sales dept. when needed. We had customers that would request for me to help them with buying a new gun. Once the wife of the owner came in and a young man was on the phone talking to someone. She said to tell the person that this was a business line and he needed to hang up. The store owner had to tell his wife to never do that again as the young man had bought a new O/U shotgun for over $4,000 and was calling his insurance company to cover the new shotgun before he left the store. Sales kept us all very busy.

Now days people are making so much more than we made. My sons are making 5 times more in salary then I ever made. Pride on ownership of a fine custom gun is whatever the person can afford to pay. I had a talk with Jerry Fisher back at TSJC one time when he came by and he told me his price started around $10,000 for a customer requested custom rifle. People kept him very busy for orders. So we have to be ready to make changes to keep up with the world today.

Get what you feel good about spending your money whether it is a $300 dollar Mossburg or a $10,000 custom ordered rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Looks like Duane is charging about $8000 for the stock work.

So for most guys on a budget (including me) a supergrade or a plussed up CNC made stock makes a lot of sense.

Good LOOKING wood, but the grain thru the grip takes it out of contention for a gunstock

quote:

Good LOOKING wood, but the grain thru the grip takes it out of contention for a gunstock

Yup, saw that right away.

Yeah...certainly not trying to be over critical and I have seen a couple times where the water marks did not actually follow the grain...I'd bet a Big Mac this isn't the case

CNC's are great for repetitive and identical production....ain't custom