I know very little about custom rifles. Are Coopers a good buy in the semi custom rifles? Or is there very little custom work in a Cooper?

Thanks FS

Fasteel.

It’s late and sometimes I read too much into a person’s question.
The definition of what is a custom rifle could encompass a whole lot of area.
There are custom rifle builders and rifle that post/are posted here that sell in the multiples of thousands. They employ wood of the finest timbre and many man hours of skilled labor to produce functional works of art. Those are truly one of a kind "customs".

Then you have other types of customs. I recently had a local smith take a Sako S491 action, a Richards micro-fit laminated thumbhole stock that another fellow had glass bedded, added a heavy Shilen select match barrel, chambered in 223 AI. Added a Vais brake and a screw on cap when I want to shoot it without the brake. Topped it with a Burris 8 x 32 signature scope I had laying around. Total investment +/- $1,400. Its a one of a kind custom, it is to my specifications, but it certainly would not compare to a work of art like something by D'arcy Echols or Stephen Dodd Hughes.

Now as to Coopers, I have 9 in my possession and two more on the way in. I have gone from collecting Sakos to collecting Coopers. Most of mine are single shot. None are safe queens. All have been bought used at +/-60% of retail. I did step up recently and pay for a Varmint Extreme in 308. To my way of thinking they are functional, excellent fit and finish, adjustable triggers. All of mine shoot well under MOA with my handloads.
I am a blue steel and wood guy at heart, but Cooper's can be purchased with synthetic stocks in all stock styles.
Another thing, is their caliber/chambering selection, you want a 17 hebee, no problem, a 6mm-284, no problem, a 25-06 AI, no problem, a 338-06, no problem,a 300 H&H, no problem. Name me another manufacturer that you can order a single shot, repeater, in wood, or synthetic, or laminate with just about any option you choose.

Although I only own one, the Jackson Game Rifle is probably my favorite stock style. I have that in the model 52 which is a repeater.

Cooper Model 52, Jackson Game Rifle, 25-06

The “Classic” to my way of thinking is the perfect walking varminter or stalking rifle.

Cooper Model 38, Classic, 22 hornet.

The Varminter/Montana Varminter/Varmint extreme are all variations on a theme, being mainly the quality of the wood, with minor stock mods.

Cooper Model 22, Montana Varminter, 6.5 x 284

At one time Cooper made only single shots other than 22 rimfire. My understanding is they were concerned about their accuracy guarantee vs. a repeater action. In the last several years they have come out with three different models, their model 52 (long action), model 54 (short action) and model 56 (belted magnums with .532 bolt face).
With Cooper, you can work with one of their dealers and order just about anything you want. You can use their wood, or ship them a blank. You can specify case coloring or engraving and checkering to your hearts delight. The depth of your pocket book is the limit. Waiting time, will probably be commensurate with the amount of custom work you require.
You might want to check out their website, http://www.cooperfirearms.com/our_rifles_new.php

Should you decide to purchase one used, you can haunt GunBroker or GunsAmerica. That is what I do.

Best
GWB

Thanks GWB

I have a couple of Coopers that are rimfires, a LVT in 17machII and a 22.The rest of my varmint guns are mostly CZ 527's and thought I may jump into one of the Coopers in a small caliber center fire rifle. FS

GWB pretty much summed it up in his paragraph below the Montana Varminter.
I would consider Coopers a non-custom rifle with a lot of custom features. Their accuracy is really something else, great.
In repeaters, I have M52's in 30/06 and 338/06 plus a M54 in 7mm/08, all will consistently shoot 3/8" groups at 100 yards, sometimes smaller.
Plus, I have a fairly large number of their single shots i.e. M38, 21 and 22.
However, be forewarned, when you buy that first Cooper, you're hooked and there is no return.
V

my 223 shoots though one hole with hornady v max's, My 22 k hornet is junk! It will not hold moa, never could get it to shoot close to the supplied factory target 9 those are shot at 50 yards I am told. My annie in 17 hmr and match shl 22 lr outshoot it big time.

JD

So, JD, interested in hearing what Cooper did about your Hornet that did not live up to their guarantee. What did they do when you sent it back to them? Surely they would have welcomed a chance to fix a rifle before it is branded on the internet as junk! Cooper has been nothing but quick and apologetic in fixing anything wrong with my rifles from them.

JD, since you're evidently shackled with a piece of Cooper's junk, please e-mail with the style (Classic, Varminter, etc.), number of rounds through the barrel, overall condition, etc., and your absolute bottom dollar (remember, this is junk), I might be persuaded to take it off hands.
Vernon

JD's rifle could very well BE a piece of junk in terms of accuracy or function.

Not every rifle that every has had the Cooper name on it is an exquisite piece of workmanship.

There have bee at least three Cooper Arms companies, the first, started by Dan in the early 1990s.

Tehn about 1996 or so, he was bought out by investors and for a year or two did not own the firm. The guns made during that time could be pretty "iffy" in terms of their quality. That could have very well been when JBs rifle was made.

Dan bought the company back back in 1999 or so and since then, they have pretty much made a very nice rifle. Most of them shoot just like Lunde and others here say, but their ARE a few floating around out their that are nothing special in terms of function or accuracy.

If those guns were not built by the current company, I wonder if they would warranty them?

Me thinks not. Even if "Cooper" is on the action

ok guys beat up the poster! The rifle is 2 years old and a varminter. It does have a headspace problem , primmers back out when forming cases, I had to relieve the shell holder to get newly formed cases out ( FACTORY AMMO). I have only tried lil gun in my reloads so far. It shoots about 2 moa. I have rebedded , tried factory ammo , and different scopes.

It has a very long throat and a slow twist so you can't get heaveir than 40 gr bullet to stablize (what's the sense in that.

I have shot my 17 hmr and 22 lr on the same day just insure it was not me or conditons, the rifle won't perform.

I will not sell junk to any body, it has nice wood and a nice little single shot action, I am either going to rechamber , or pull the barrel open up the bolt to 223 and make a single shot 300 acc blk out of it, it I can single feed the rounds.

I did speak to the factory , they were nice, and offered to look at it if I would send it in at my cost. I realy should not have to do that on a 1800 dollar rifle. I have built several rifle and have always found a way to get factory rifles to shoot well, so i have not given up on this yet.

I just bought some vn110 and will try some more reloads, if it won't shoot then, it will get torn down and rebuilt or sent back.

I will trade it for a rifle with 223 bolt face of equail value for the 300 acc project, throw in dies and a couple hundred unfied case , and bunches of 22 bullets, dies.


JD

JD,
I've had nothing but good luck with mine, but I can understand your frustration.
I've owned twenty or so Sakos, even tweaked a couple for friends. A couple years ago when the 338 federal came out, I bought one of the model 75 or 85 (can't remember now) stainless synthetics. I must have tried a hundred different load combinations. It's very frustrating to purchase a product that should be first class, having paid for quality and it not perform.
I wonder if you could approach the customer service person or his supervisor at Cooper and suggest that you would pay the shipping to them and if they find a problem, would they fix it at their cost and at least pay the shipping back to you. If it worked, it might be cheaper than rebarreling/rechambering.
Good luck on whatever you decide
Best
GWB

Geedubya I had one of those Sako 85's in 338 Fed as well. 2" groups were the norm. It finally dawned on me that the chamber was throated .007" over size. When the mic revealed that I gave up and sold it to Bubba who wanted it for woods elk hunting.

Reason Sako throated oversize was to prevent the potential of pressure spikes resulting from overly thick case necks when shooters formed 338 cases from 308 or 358 brass.

Shame on Sako/Barretta's lawyers for screwing up what otherwise would have been a very nice rifle.

Lucky for me I bought them new from a gunshop where I've traded for 20 years. The first one I bought, I really wrung it out. Did all the little tricks to get it to shoot. Wouldn't hold two inch groups. Gave it back for another. Second one was the same. Gave it back also. Mainly wasted time, powder and bullets. Very frustrating though.
GWB

JD,
It does appear that your rifle indeed has issues.
Call Joe at Cooper (406-777-0373) and INSIST on a UPS call tag.
Vernon

I purchased their Jackson Hunter 25/06AI last year and I have to do something seriously wrong to make her not group well.

I only have fifty rounds through her, but every load recipe I tested all hovered around their half minute guarantee. I shot one five round group in the .3's. Barnes 85 grain TTSX. The rifle is as accurate as my two custom rigs at half the price.

Sadly, the rifle didn't see much hunting time so it may make an appearance in the classifieds.

I have a Cooper 38 in 22 Hornet. For the price I was a bit disappointed. The gun is fairly hard to find used and is about the only option for a small action to fit a Hornet. I ordered one at basically retail a after looking around locally for a long time. There were a few details that I was not happy with after paying that much for a new gun. The extractor was a poor fit, looked like it was hand made with a dremel, and bent back at the hook within the first few rounds. I made a new one out of a connecting rod bolt. The ejector was also a poor fit, looked like it was hand made, and didn't work very well because the tip was rounded over. I made a new one of these also. The pivot pins for the bolt stop and ejector were hand ground and very sloppy, so I turned down a couple of these too. Everything else about the rifle is very nice. The CNC receiver and bolt are very straight, the wood and checkering are very precise, and most importantly it is very accurate.

I'm not sure what your definition of custom is, but coopers are certainly not ubiquitous, and if you get one and modify it to your taste then it will probably be unique. The cooper 38 is about the only thing around for that size, but for the larger cartridges I'd suggest getting a custom rem700 clone action and building what you want.

Not to mention the fact that there are many people who will not buy them because they say "Cooper" on the side.

The Cooper is a nice semi custom that is a pretty good value for what you get in general.

Because of the politics involved with "Cooper" I will never have one in my safes even if it were given to me.

B H,


wondered how long it would take for one of you nimrods to show up. Your choice, as I've said before, leaves more for me to buy with less competition. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut you use products refined from Saudi Crude,(lets see, weren't there something like 18 saudis involved in 9/11). Probably have German scopes or crystal. Probably have articles made in Japan. May have something from Italy. May even have stuff from the peoples republic of China. I'd say those countries have been directly responsible for the death of many more Americans than Dan Cooper. How many of the products from those countries do you boycott! Get rid of everything from one of those countries then come back and talk.

GWB

BH,
Lighten up.
V

Ol' boss can't ever pass an opportunity to inform others that while what they have might be nice, it's not good enough for him.

It's a character thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Lunde Sr.:
BH,
Lighten up.
V

Sorry but for a someone who did what he did and make his living in the trade is not smart. Have looked at many of them close up and for what they are a good value.

I speak with my wallet---we live in a global economy now and realize more than most about this. Part of what I do---as for Not 4 Me---you are not even on my radar LOL so go and stick your nose up SDH's rear. To try and get a rise out of me is pretty funny actually.

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
B H,


wondered how long it would take for one of you nimrods to show up. Your choice, as I've said before, leaves more for me to buy with less competition. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut you use products refined from Saudi Crude,(lets see, weren't there something like 18 saudis involved in 9/11). Probably have German scopes or crystal. Probably have articles made in Japan. May have something from Italy. May even have stuff from the peoples republic of China. I'd say those countries have been directly responsible for the death of many more Americans than Dan Cooper. How many of the products from those countries do you boycott! Get rid of everything from one of those countries then come back and talk.

GWB

Hey just because you choose to invest your discretionary firearms monies on rifles made by Cooper and he did what he did caused the market to soften---I might get testy as well. Oil---now that you mention that this is where I was this weekend---drove to the ranch in NM to check on this among other things.

I have one of the investor era rifles. I thought I was buying the genuine article but found out later when I called to ask about the trigger adjustments. I was not treated well. Dan told me he didn't make it, wasn't responsible for it and that was that. It has shot well, then the accuracy went away so I took a little wood out of the barrel channel where it had started contacting the rights side of the barrel, touched up the bedding and now it shoots great. Its a mdl. 22 Varmint extreme in 22=250. Prettiest rifle I own. If I had to deal with Mr Cooper again, I don't think I'd own another but since he is not publicly active in the company I would buy another if the price was right etc. DW

In all fairness to cooper, I took the k hornet out with a new load of 10 ge of vv n110 and a40 gr v-max. Only had 10 rounds loade ,and shot at 50 yards because of 20 mph winds, the rifle may have some potential with this powder. I will report back after more testing.

JD

Well, gotta make this quick as I'm off to hunt Easter Eggs.

So rather than palaver,I'll just say thanks, to Santa and the Easter Bunny, no lumps of coal or rotten eggs,

Just a few Coopers that shoot better than I do.

Best
GWB

I take back what I said if some of those are 300 yd groups. If they are a hundred then when I used to shoot factory rifles they did that well or better.

The 6.5x284 shows promise----shoot a 5 shot string. The ES on the 6.5x284 target very nice as well.

Boss,

I guess I'm a victim of low expectations. I'm happy with my Coopers.
I'm want to say, the rifles shoot better than I do in my old age.

So, I've shown you mine.

Ball is in your court.

Best

GWB

I'm real happy with the way mine shoots now. As I said in the previous post, I'd buy another one. Say a mdl. 22 in 6mm or 6mm improved. or the real little one in a 17 fireball. DW

Does Cooper make their own barrels?

quote:

I have one of the investor era rifles. I thought I was buying the genuine article but found out later when I called to ask about the trigger adjustments. I was not treated well. Dan told me he didn't make it, wasn't responsible for it and that was that.

dwheels, if you don't mind would you elaborate on this a little more for those of us who don't know. I've never heard of Cooper Investor rifles. Sounds like an interesting story. Thanks.



Geedubya, you've got a nice collection there. I'd be proud to own any of them.

Terry

TC1, The investor rifles were made at a time when Dan Cooper had sold the business and was not involved in the manufacture of the rifles with his name on them. Dan told me this story when I called to ask for instructions to adjust the trigger pull weight down a bit. Said he didn't make it, wasn't his, and so on. I was dissapointed to say the least. His tone was not pleasant in fact I would say it was gruff. I got over the hurt feelings, made my mind up to keep the rifle, and it is my go to gun for prairie dogs out beyond 200. It also has one of the prettiest pieces of claro walnut I have seen on it. The trigger is crisp at 2 1/2 pounds. On most days I can shoot a half inch group or slightly better with it. It makes me happy every time I think about what a dick he was and how nice it is to know the only thing I got that was his was the name. DW

Huh, I had no idea on the history/politics of cooper. I just happened to find them when I was looking for a 22 Hornet that wasn't a rimfire conversion or a 30-06 with a tiny chamber. Their M38 is the only thing I know of that's the right size.

So, what did he do that was bad?

@Geedubya: I am happy that you seem to like our Munich beer!

Don't own a centerfire Cooper but my 57M Custom Classic with a French walnut stock upgrade is a heck of a shooter with RWS "Target Rifle". It shoots even better with costlier versions of Lapua and RWS ammo.

These were shot at 70 yds shortly after getting it back from Cooper this past December.

From the bench but with my hand under the forearm.


From the bench with the forearm on the front rest.




First time I saw it, this is what sold me.



Alan

Dan Cooper has ZERO to do with the company now, it was bought out lock-stock-and barrel. He can spend the rest of his days kissing Obama arse for all I care, but the rifle company should not now be shunned for that reason.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Dan Cooper has ZERO to do with the company now, it was bought out lock-stock-and barrel. He can spend the rest of his days kissing Obama arse for all I care, but the rifle company should not now be shunned for that reason.

+1.

The current owners and employees should not be black listed due to Dan Cooper's choices.

Alan

quote:

First time I saw it, this is what sold me.



Alan

+1 on that.

It never ceases to amaze me that an inatimate work of art in blue steel and wood can create such feelings of lust and desire.

That custom classic is a looker.

GWB

GSSP What a beautiful .22 I can see why you bought it. I completely agree that the employees at Cooper should not be held responsible for the actions of the boss. I have seen some of the same names on other Cooper Firearms targets as on my Cooper Arms sample target. I said before I believe the folks there to be craftsmen and I'll bet very nice people.
I would buy another Varmint or Varmint Extreme in 223, 6mm or something different. I really like the one I have. DW