Ok I have found the perfect gunsmith to make my dream rifle

He has very set ideas about what is a London best Rifle being ex holland , boss and purdey

Www.alanwey.co.UK

Now can you aficionados help with ideas and pictures as what you consider must have features to be the ultimate rifle

I have decided to go for 7x57 chamber

I would love a boss like lightweight pointAble rifle

My gunsmith has discouraged me to go for a breakdown or stutzen which I am very fond of ....

Cost is not an issue with me and marcus hunt will engrave for me
He is ken hunt's son

Thanks in advance

Why not just buy a Ruger? Just kidding. If this is going to be your dream rifle then go for it. Sorry, I have no idea what features a dream rifle should have, but I will know it when I see it. I DO like the caliber though!
Best...Peter.

You might want to look at some of the features applied by Duane Weibe. He has posted several rifles and you can do a search if you like. Here is his most recent post: http://forums.accuratereloadin...601000061#2601000061

For me then a half round to an octagon barrel would be a must.

Clasis engraved bolt handle.

Mark it 275 Rigby of coure.

Skeleton butt plate and grip cap.

I use this WR as a general yardstick.



However for 7x57 Id prefer small ring intermediate receiver or seriously consider a Kurz length 7mm/08.
The rifle below is a real delight.

Now there's a piece of gun porn, for sure!

The Westley is a nice rifle, not quite a Weibe, Echols, Martini or some of the other top North American makers, but, it is elegant and quite functional in appearance.

For Londonhunter, I would question the choice of a 7x57, given that at least one major Euro. nation bans this and all other former and current military rounds for civilian use in hunting, this, of course, is France. I would not want to limit my use of my dream rifle in any way due to such bullshit laws, but, that is a personal issue.

I would find a nice Brno 21/22 donor rifle and go from there with the best barrel available and wood to match. I would have the flatbolt removed and an Oberndorf style installed as well as a Recknagel 3-pos. safety and an older FN trigger, converted to single stage.

I have several of these Brnos and their ZG models so converted and they work VERY well in BC's harsh hunting conditions. So, I tend to recommend them.

I would chamber 7x64, use appropriate mounts and scope and a 23" bbl. I prefer quarter-sawn hard "Juglans Regia" for the wood and not too fancy, straight, even grain throughout, sealed with epoxy and then oil-finished. I hate steel buttplates on any hunting rifle and prefer a light Pachmayr .600" "Old English" pad on a rifle such as this.

I also would have a banded ramp front post and a rear "peep" sight and an extra scope in the same mounts as the main one.

I dislike engraving on rifles and would not have any, other than my initials, NOT in gold, on the triggerguard. This would be a replacement from Duane Weibe or someone of equal capability.

Just my thoughts and I have many "dream" rifles, but, not a "perfect"one.........

I have owned many custom rifles over the years but most were built by me or second hand built for others. At this late time of life I have ordered 2 rifles built this being the first in 7x57 which was a caliber I had never owned. This rifle acquited itself quite well on my final safari taking several Kudu at varying ranges out to 300yds. It was built on a 1909 action by Clayton Nelson a friend I attended gunsmith school with. Shoots 3 shot 3/4" grougs with 175gr Nosler Partitions. The slim barrel heats up and shots begin to climb after that. Sights are by Clayton also. I don't consider a rifle complete without iron sights even if they will never be used. Checkering has mullered borders and grip cap is steel and buttplate is a Neidner. Wood was selected for it's color primarily. I prefer dark wood and am actually pretty neutral about figure. Barrel sling swivel base is old english style and not a barrel band. Scope bases are also by Clayton for Talley rings.

Ok guys, I am not seeing something that really grab my eyes.

All your pictures are nice but I want something stunning.

Perhaps I am looking for something that does exist !!!

Dear Londonhunter:

7x57 cartridge, go for it!

I'm building a 7x57 Ackley Improved on a sweet 1909 Argentine just like you, but with a 2nd generation Lyman 48 aperture sight in lieu of the open rear sight.

Didn't I read somewhere that the 7x57 has killed every animal on the planet?

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I tried searching but couldn't find it.
ForrestB has I think a 7 x 57 on a G33/40 action with a full length stock that has to be the finest rifle I have ever seen. I'm pretty sure Weibe built it.
That Westly Richards needs to replace the header on this forum.

Here are a few ideas to mull over.

First up is a generall view of a really nice rifle.


It should have open sights and aperture is my preference and bolt mounted on short cocking piece rather than long to keep it out of the way of the thumb over the grip.


Unless you prefer a base mounted unit.


Has to have a specutacular piece of wood.



Will need a knife to dress all the game you will sucessfully hunt.


Nice checkering and another nice knife. Forend of rifle a bit clubby for my taste but otherwise very nice.



Of course then you will need something to carry it in from home to the hunting field.



And it goes without saying that it simply has to be in 7x57. How does France see the 275 Rigby marked rifle. Do they see it as 7x57 and dissalow its use.
Von Gruff.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Ok guys, I am not seeing something that really grab my eyes.

All your pictures are nice but I want something stunning.

you mean you want to see something with more flash/bling?

If one appreciates a nimble lightweight 7mm, The Kurz T/D would be about the niftiest thing out there.
I find more user friendly pleasure in such scaled to cartridge actions/rifles.

Those are some lovely rifles.

nwo since when did we start building our rifles based on what soem country like france thinks? I mean is there some special game in france that can not be hunted elsewhere?

My suggestion is bild a 7x57 if that is what you want and tell the french to EATADICK.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
I use this WR as a general yardstick.

That is the same picture I sent Duane Wiebe and told him, "Build me a .404 Jeffery that looks just like this rifle." Is being built on an Oberndorf action (1935 Chilean). Cannot wait to see the final product.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
That is the same picture I sent Duane Wiebe and told him, "Build me a .404 Jeffery that looks just like this rifle." Is being built on an Oberndorf action (1935 Chilean). Cannot wait to see the final product.

Yep,...the English were crafting rifles like that when todays noted North American custom gunsmiths were still waiting to be conceived by two adults that hadn't even met yet....
When it comes to bespoke styling theres nothing much new under the sun.

This is not a Boss or Purdey, however its more recently established makers know there no sense in wandering away from the quintessential english game gun concept, rather, they do their best to capture it.

I'd want a lot of the semi-standard English features of yore...including but not limited to:

- Holland and Holland patent QD scope mount,

- Dan'l Fraser patent trigger,

- Never a "Leg of Mutton" case. Rather, an oak and leather "motor case" with "French fit" compartments for everything, rifle, turnscrews, cleaning rod, scope, et.al. (Scope needs its own, capped & buckled, leather "tube" which fits perfectly inside the motor case.) Your name should be embossed in at least 1" high letters on the top of the hinged lid, as virtually all the used "bespoken" English-built cased rifles I bought had. The case, to be traditional, should be green baize lined.

- Buffalo Horn handled turnscrews and cleaning rod,

- Hinged pistol grip cap with a spare front sight blade inside the grip,

- No recoil pad - a trap steel buttplate finely checkered, with a spare striker inside the buttstock, (this is not a big kicker, but does need protection from rocks, etc, when the butt has to be set down suddenly or brusquely when climbing among the rocks and rills

- A "Mauser Sporter" floorplate release...either the inside the bow type, or a bottom lever, whichever strikes your fancy....I personally prefer the bottom lever.


- Iron sights...a wide and VERY shallow full-width V fixed "band" sight for the rear (with a platinum vertical center line), filed for 50 yards, with one added folding leaf of the same style, filed for 125 yards. A classic band type front sight with a bead colour of your preference, PLUS a fold up white "night" bead of about 1/8" diameter...peferably of wart-hog ivory.

- band type front sling swivel base, permanently afixed to the barrel

- 25" barrel, chambered for the .280 Remington and throated to use 175 grain bullets, such as the Noslers...all round, no octagon Germanic styles here (For an explanation of the chambering pick, read Townsend Whelen's treatise called "A Slightly Better Hunting Rifle". As both a very experienced hunter AND the head of Frankford Arsenal, he knew a thing or two about choosing effective cartridges.)

- NO forend tip. Just a nice very short English stalking rifle style forend with full wrap-around checkering of whatever pattern turns your crank.

That's my short list, based on my Rigby, H&H, W/R, Mauser A and B, Fraser, and other bolt action sporter rifles....but mainly on my first Rigby which was a '98 Mauser action-based rifle in .303 British.

- Almost forgot...for the Holland-type QD rear mount, the rear bridge would have to be "square", so if the action wasn't already that way, it would need to be modified to that profile. That mounting requires a square hole in the top of the rear bridge, into which a square lug on the bottom of the rear scope ring fits. It is released by pressing a spring loaded button which is recessed into the right side of the square bridge.

Will come up with more to my list as I recall other things I enjoyed about those rifles.

Many thanks to those above who have posted pictures of some gorgeous looking firearms. They in my mind qualify as true pieces of art.

This pictures are giving me alot of really good ideas for my own custom 404.

Ditto lots of ideas

I will sit down with my gumsmith and finialise things in the next few weeks

Perhaps a built report to follow


How about engraving any pictures and suggestions ?

Just gilt bordering to hightlight the action lines rather than full fledged engraving with plain games scene..........

Trax,

That Kurz T/D is the crat's azz!

IMO it should have a scope with only an ocular bell (like the Leupold in a pic a few posts above), if it must wear a scope at all. I think the more modren-looking double-bell Zeiss looks out of place. Quite unsavory, as it were...!

Those modern Kurz mausers are really appealing.

Compare a Kurz 7mm08 to say a large ring std. M98 7x57 by H&H, and your entertaining differing rifle dynamics.
The difference is even greater when you compare a Kurz 300wsm to a more traditional long barreled 300H&H dropbox magnum length mauser.

As good as some of todays Nth American smiths are, one should remember that most any of the highly regarded well established patented mechanical designs that they base their bespoke rifles on, originally came from Europe.
ie; M98,Mannlicher,Sidelock,Droplock,Self opening action,single shots such as Hagn,GibbsFarq,etc.
America was also an industrialised nation when those designs came forth from Europe, but it didnt really invent/create or innovate much in the same class as the top well established European designs that are still held in such high regard today.

I would find an original Rigbymauser in 7x57, and had it opdated with a H&H scopemount or have fitted with a Rigby scopemount( as they had back then). An intermediate or smallring action M98 is what is needed.
A 7x57 shouldn`t weigh more than 7Ibs + scope and still have slim 26" barrel for good pointablillty.

quote:

Compare a Kurz 7mm08 to say a clunky large ring std. M98 7x57 by H&H, and your entering different worlds of rifle dynamics.

Wonder what one of those Kurz T/D's would look like with a shorter action and shorter (reduced capacity) magazine...

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
I would find an original Rigbymauser in 7x57, and had it opdated with a H&H scopemount or have fitted with a Rigby scopemount( as they had back then). An intermediate or smallring action M98 is what is needed.
A 7x57 shouldn`t weigh more than 7Ibs + scope and still have slim 26" barrel for good pointablillty.

jens, we have very similar taste in rifles.

I would just add that I would use one of the longer fore ended Rigbys as my model, as opposed to a shorter one.

Even what I am calling a longer fore end is rather abbreviated on a classic Rigby.

I'm not sure what design malfunction happened with the shorter ones that Rigby made, but IMHO, they are way too much of a good thing.

quote:

chambered for the .280 Remington 7x57 and throated to use 175 grain bullets

Fixed it...

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

quote:

chambered for the .280 Remington 7x57 and throated to use 175 grain bullets

Fixed it...

Actually, you F-'d it up. You need to read WHY Townie Whelen recommended that specific .280 chambering before you amend MY post.

I owned two original Rigby Mauser stalking rifles in .275 Rigby, and two H&H-built Mauser stalking rifles in .275 H&H Magnum and would go with Mr. Whelen's logic.

You may prefer and recommend the 7x57, but I don't...at least not in comparison with the .280 Remington for hunting use. So my post will remain as posted, as we were asked for input on a HUNTING rifle, not a parlour queen.

BTW, Mr. Whelen not only had a great deal of big game hunting experience, he had some very knowledgeable close friends with whom he discussed such things....one being a certain Mr. WDM Bell. "Bell of Africa" was a book put together by Whelen at Bell's personal request from Mr. Bell's lifetime journals of notes, and virtually every stitch of it was discussed by Mssrs. Whelen & Bell before it was put to print. So Mr. Whelen also benefited from Mr. Bell's ideas of what made the best field rifles, and why.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
I would find an original Rigbymauser in 7x57, and had it opdated with a H&H scopemount or have fitted with a Rigby scopemount( as they had back then). An intermediate or smallring action M98 is what is needed.
A 7x57 shouldn`t weigh more than 7Ibs + scope and still have slim 26" barrel for good pointablillty.

jens, we have very similar taste in rifles.

I would just add that I would use one of the longer fore ended Rigbys as my model, as opposed to a shorter one.

Even what I am calling a longer fore end is rather abbreviated on a classic Rigby.

I'm not sure what design malfunction happened with the shorter ones that Rigby made, but IMHO, they are way too much of a good thing.

I could settle for the shorter than American, but longer of the Rigby forends, if I had to, and I would want a longer forend if shooting from a rest.

But, it wasn't a design malfunction. It was an ergonomic design CORRECTION that resulted in the shortest Rigby forend.

For offhand shots on running game it is important to have a smooth, continuous swing of the barrel, just as with shooting birds with a gun. To achieve that, Rigby believed, as I do, in the British style of gun mounting and swing.

That is, with the arm and hand extended to where they are almost straight out pointing at the object to be hit, not sharply bent at the elbow. The very short Rigby forend is to insure the shooter's hand is holding the BARREL, NOT BENT TO WHERE IT IS HOLDING THE FOREND, when the shot is fired.

A little strange feeling at first, but once familiar, a considerable assistance on shots at running game, whether crossing, or snap shooting.

I'm going to have to go ahead and respectfully disagree with you, AC.

A splinter fore end works great on a double rifle or shotgun.

But proper and quick manipulation of a bolt rifle requires some purchase on the piece forward of the grip, as we Yankees say, or the hand, for Britishers.

Not to mention that the too short fore end just looks awful on a bolt rifle. Plain ugly, as a matter of fact.

Maybe someone (Trax ) with a good photo library can show the different styles.

Too short is too short, IMHO.

I agree it does not look good to our eyes. It is not what we are used to. I also find them far less than beautiful, except when in actual use...

I also understand why you do not think that is a good way to hold the front of a rifle. I won't argue that one way or the other. I am just telling why it was done.

I find it works out very well for me, and the Brits have used short forends for a long time, with good results in the fields of Scotland, Africa, and India in particular. As to whether it would work for anyone raised to mount a rifle differently, is very open to debate. I find it not a problem to get quite adequate purchase on the barrel alone. And, it does force one to extend his arm toward the target. To the extent that the improved swing causes first round hits on the running game, the less important quick repeat shots MAY become.

For those who don't believe it will work, it won't. And vice-versa.

Any pictures of the shorter forends on rifles? Not sure I know (or can picture) the different lengths that are being talked about. Those takedowns are stunning. I will probably just try to upgrade the wood on my Blaser!
Thanks, Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

quote:

chambered for the .280 Remington 7x57 and throated to use 175 grain bullets

Fixed it...

Actually, you F-'d it up. You need to read WHY Townie Whelen recommended that specific .280 chambering before you amend MY post.

I owned two original Rigby Mauser stalking rifles in .275 Rigby, and two H&H-built Mauser stalking rifles in .275 H&H Magnum and would go with Mr. Whelen's logic.

You may prefer and recommend the 7x57, but I don't...at least not in comparison with the .280 Remington for hunting use. So my post will remain as posted, as we were asked for input on a HUNTING rifle, not a parlour queen.

BTW, Mr. Whelen not only had a great deal of big game hunting experience, he had some very knowledgeable close friends with whom he discussed such things....one being a certain Mr. WDM Bell. "Bell of Africa" was a book put together by Whelen at Bell's personal request from Mr. Bell's lifetime journals of notes, and virtually every stitch of it was discussed by Mssrs. Whelen & Bell before it was put to print. So Mr. Whelen also benefited from Mr. Bell's ideas of what made the best field rifles, and why.

Obviously, you can have it any way you want it. In my mind, however, the .280 (the cartridge that I've probably taken the most game with) belongs on a rifle in the American Classic rather than English style.

That being said, it's your rifle & your money.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

Obviously, you can have it any way you want it. In my mind, however, the .280 (the cartridge that I've probably taken the most game with) belongs on a rifle in the American Classic rather than English style.

That being said, it's your rifle & your money.

And you too are welcome to have it anyway YOU like.

I note that the original Poster did not request thoughts about a "classic" rifle. He asked about ideas and preferences for the ultimate bespoken hunting rifle. I like the English style of rifle, but in what I think is a better hunting cartridge. The English obviously liked several different "7 m/m" rifles, ergo their manufacture of a lot of 7x57s, .275 H&H's, and .280 Kynoch Nitro (Ross) chambered rifles and ammo.

Y'all have a nice day...

A few short fore end photos




I find this one much better looking

Thanks for the pictures SR. I do see the difference, but would have to handle the rifle before deciding I wanted a short fore end.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Thanks for the pictures SR. I do see the difference, but would have to handle the rifle before deciding I wanted a short fore end.
Peter.

A wise choice.

A person not used to one should also think through whether they are willng to learn and stick to the British style of gun mounting when they shoot. Going back and forth from the American to the British style will only confuse the shooter in the long run.

One tip on a short forend. The length can (and should) vary according to the build of the shooter. The way to use it is to grasp the barrel just in front of the forend, so the rounded tip of the forend nestles against the heel of the hand holding the barrel.

That does three things...it extends the shooter's arm toward the target, it puts the hand in the same place for each shot, and it keeps the gun from rotating when one works the bolt.

Determining the length of the forend for a specific shooter was part of "fitting" the gun to him, in the days when he was asked to shoulder and fire the rifle before the stock was finished while the rifle was still being built by the gunmakers.

When I did my own 7x57 I made my stock with a 7 5/8 in forend from the front of the receiver ring. For mounting the rifle I have my hand on the very front of the forend with my finger layed along the underside of the tip and just touching against the underside of the barrel. Barrel band sling swivel of course. Gives a repeatable mounting technique and with hand on the forend with thumb and remaining fingers wrapped arround the forend to rest against the barrel on top of the stock think I have a better hold against the twisting torque that is aqpplied when working the bolt.
Of course I dont put my rifle in the same class as some of those posted but this is how it worked out. Forend as I said is 7 5/8 inches past the receiver ring.



Von Gruff.

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:
When I did my own 7x57 I made my stock with a 7 5/8 in forend from the front of the receiver ring. For mounting the rifle I have my hand on the very front of the forend with my finger layed along the underside of the tip and just touching against the underside of the barrel. Barrel band sling swivel of course. Gives a repeatable mounting technique and with hand on the forend with thumb and remaining fingers wrapped around the forend to rest against the barrel on top of the stock think I have a better hold against the twisting torque that is aqpplied when working the bolt.
Of course I dont put my rifle in the same class as some of those posted but this is how it worked out. Forend as I said is 7 5/8 inches past the receiver ring.

Von Gruff.

Looks like quite a nice rifle to me, Von Gruff.
And I'd bet money you and it shoot well together too.

Beauty, of course is not just in appearances, but also how well a rifle performs its intended tasks. That's why I picked a short fore-end for MY fantasy rifle. I know that for me they perform better in the field than do a lot of longer stocked ones.

BTW, I like your signature. I would only go with the .280 Remington if I didn't have a large medium-bore too and wanted one rifle to do it all. Since I do have a .404, I could get along anywhere with it and a 7x57.