XM2010 Enhanced Sniper Rifle:

http://www.military.com/news/a....html?ESRC=army-a.nl

Either Guns & Ammo or Shooting Times had an article on the rifle a couple of months ago. I'm all for anything that increases the lethality of our troops in the field. I believe the sniper load for 300WM is in the 200-210 grain range. It will be interesting to see reports on terminal ballistics.

quote:

Originally posted by sam308:
Either Guns & Ammo or Shooting Times had an article on the rifle a couple of months ago. I'm all for anything that increases the lethality of our troops in the field. I believe the sniper load for 300WM is in the 200-210 grain range. It will be interesting to see reports on terminal ballistics.

190gr @ 2900 FPS

With H1000 powder, and loaded to 68000 PSI.

300Win has been used as the "intermediate" sniper round for quite sometime--

as far back as Vietnam--

Replacing the .308 makes some sense in the urban and intermediate distance engagements.

IMO at least.

As to longer ranges-- 1500 M +--not so much.

But that is not(should not be) the planned role for this rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by sam308:
I'm all for anything that increases the lethality of our troops in the field.

+1

It was part of the plan on the last rifle order. Long action .308's. From what I heard/read they were debating which cartrdidge so they ordered long actions with .308s so all they had to do was rebarrel after a decission was made.

One thing that was always interesting to me is how our military jumps from a .308 to a .50 with nothing in between. The .338 Lapua is a great sniper round, and would also make an interesting medium machine gun round.

quote:

Originally posted by Sam:
It was part of the plan on the last rifle order. Long action .308's. From what I heard/read they were debating which cartrdidge so they ordered long actions with .308s so all they had to do was rebarrel after a decission was made.

And change the bolt.

At least 30 years ago, Remington was supplying the snipers with a two barrel/two bolt system for 7.52x51 and 300 WM. Did the brass just get the memo? We saw a few (300WMs) in RVN in 1971.

Rich

I knew a fella that while he was at a firebase in South Vietnam, Republic of, that had a 378 Weatherby Mag MKIV.

He used it for sniping out of the tower.

I saw his pictures.

The 308 has always been a "poor choice" as a sniper round compared with what it actually replaced! That is the 8mm Mauser with a 196 grain bullet, the 303 British with a 174 grain bullet and the American 30-06.

It only did replace them not because it was BETTER (it wasn't) but because logistically with the US using the M14 and the M60 and Europe the FN-FAL it made sense to have the sniper able to use the same round as the rest of the men in his platoon.

Now that the day of the 7.62mm NATO self-loading rifle has passed into history it makes sense to again issue a full power proper cartridge for the sniper's rifle.

As events in former Yugolsavia showed the 8mm Mauser is still a very potent sniper round! But I suppose that it would be somehow seen as a "backward step" to introduce in the NATO countries a seventy year old cartridge loading no matter how effective!

So...enter 300 Winchester Magnum.

Personally I think that if a "civilian" catridge was going to be suddenly "discovered" as the new "magic" sniper round that there were better candidates (BELTLESS) than 300 Win Mag!

Maybe a beltless version of the 308 Norma Magnum would have been better?

I always thought the .30 caliber bullet was better suited for long range use by a sniper than the .308 cal or what they have nowdays.

I used the .300 Win mag for many years and it was extremely accurate using Sierra 190 & 200 grn bullets. One does not need the extra energy to kill an enemy hundreds of yards down range. The .300 Win mag will be a great tool for our military for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
Now that the day of the 7.62mm NATO self-loading rifle has passed into history it makes sense to again issue a full power proper cartridge for the sniper's rifle.

I take it you're not familiar with the USMC's M39 Enhanced Marksman's Rifle.



Also, the USN still uses the M14 for a few tasks other than a line throwing device.

Not that version, but my friend's son has encountered the "Brit" "knock-off" of it whilst serving with British Army in Afghanistan.

If I remember correctly from my tour in Afghanistan (2007), the SF unit we were working with had a 300 WIN MAG.

Just my opinion, and I'm a nobody but:
A 7mm Rem mag shooting 160 gr. VLD bullets will beat that 300 Win mag with a lot less fuss.
And there are a lot of better choices out there than the 7mm Rem.
It is not nessessary to have a 30 cal. A 7mm or even a 6.5mm would be better.

Cheers, John

"Back in the day..." mid 90's, when active shooting long range at Oak Ridge, TN, frequently the AMTU shot there and several were using the Rem.700's/300WinMag. These were 1000yd. matches and there were others using the 308 as well. I don't recall that one caliber delivered better scores than the other, but will say as a group they were fine shooters and good folks to be around as well. Sometimes group of shooters reportedly from Secret Svc. shot there and they used the Rem700/7RemMag and heard that round was preferred by them??
As a side note, the Army group was friendly, good to shoot with, but not so much with the other "gov't types" for they were a bit on the "snooty" side it seemed. From time to time some of us civilians would have a good day and shoot good scores and the Army would just say "good shooting," but the other "types" would be a bit out of sorts.

Blue Dog--.308 is not .30 cal???

Pope AFB and Ft Bragg both in SC share common border. Ft Bragg has a jump school and most jumps are made from planes from Pope AFB. There is a highly restricted area of Bragg that the Pope planes cannot fly across. It is not known what happens in the restricted area, but commonly thought Delta Force training. I knew a guy that worked in the area and he could not tell me what he did but he could tell me he shot pretty much daily. A lot of this shoting was .308. He also told me they had a heavy .300 mag. This was back in the 80's when I talked to him.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
300Win has been used as the "intermediate" sniper round for quite sometime--

as far back as Vietnam--

Replacing the .308 makes some sense in the urban and intermediate distance engagements.

IMO at least.

As to longer ranges-- 1500 M +--not so much.

But that is not(should not be) the planned role for this rifle.

Agreed...I good friend was Army special forces sniper and used the 300 almost exclusively. He did mention the recoil in training with the M700 Remingtons was an issue for some. They were basically the M24 in long action with the 300 Win Mag chamber.

they moved Ft Bragg south a state...?

Rest easy gentlemen, the army currently has over 5,000 M-14's in service with the new EBR-1(?) replacement stocks. New stock, new Leupold scope, sub moa by the reports. Scout Marksman training, not sure about the exact name; graduates are being issued them. At least one per squad. AmRifleman had an extensive write up on the program a few issues back.

The idea is that these rifles obviate the need to call for a sniper team in these little impromptu exchanges of fire past the 223 effective range.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by COOL:

quote:

Originally posted by sam308:
I'm all for anything that increases the lethality of our troops in the field.

+1

Very good Treatise on Evaluating the current M4 and suggestion for helping our troops with respect to effective caliber.

www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA512331

Well Infantry units of your Australian allies are now getting issued the HK417 as their version of the Enhanced Marksman rifle.

http://www.heckler-koch.com/en...417-12/overview.html

They are also getting rid of the Minimi and replacing it with the Maximi.

It's taken almost 40 years but it seems we are finaly get some real back up for that toy round, the 5.56x45.

When I was in the USArmy in the late 80s early 90s there was talk of caseless ammunition for the M16 but I dont think it went anywhere. I dont here much about the 6.8MM either.

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by enfieldspares:
Now that the day of the 7.62mm NATO self-loading rifle has passed into history it makes sense to again issue a full power proper cartridge for the sniper's rifle.

I take it you're not familiar with the USMC's M39 Enhanced Marksman's Rifle.



Also, the USN still uses the M14 for a few tasks other than a line throwing device.[/QUOTE

Member of my dep (LEO) was deployed with one! Did us damn proud as well with 23 confirmed!

Rock Island celebrated the restocking of their 5,000th M14 last fall. That neat aluminum stock is about $750 retail. There was a 4-page write up in the American Rifleman a few months ago. With the Leupold scope they are shooting sub-moa in 100yd testing.

Nice...

Rich

the wheels grind slowly....

Or maybe, more fairly, there are many perspectives to, and therefore many answers to, every question.

Obviously there are many opinions regarding the "best" of anything.

The 300 WM ought to be an improvement over the 308 Win, but there are better choices still.

what I really would like to know, is how much weight is saved by that cool stock on the M14?