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I hope there's some 1911 eggheads on here that can help me out. A friend of mine recently passed away and his wife is trying to determine what's in his gun safe. The firearms will stay in the family, but they want to know if some of the pieces are collectable. Here is a description of one of the pistols: Ithaca .45 M1911 1A U.S Property US Army s/n 1863394. Two small markings on right side by trigger area – Crown emblem with BNP below it and a Crossing Swords with 148 under it. Is this something to use a truck gun or does it have any particular value? Thanks for any help. Never follow a bad move with a stupid move. | ||
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One of Us |
There are more nuances in 1911 collecting than in any other firearm. Thus it is very difficult to make a decent estimate without at least a number of quality photos and more specifically an actual takedown inspection of the parts. However, from the description you've given I can tell you it was made during WWII and your description of the marks sounds like it was a lend-lease to England. Beyond that I cannot say. Collectiblity depends upon condition. The more original, the more the value. It should be properly evaluated by a 1911 collector of some repute. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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One of Us |
Officially Colt 45 1911A1 pistols were never a "Lend Lease" item. Some 1911A1 pistols were obtained by the British Purchasing Commission but this was in 1940 BEFORE the Lend-Lease Act. And some of those were in fact in .38 Super. I had one a long time ago a Colt .38 Super Match and like ALL such they had ENFIELD stamped MILITARY INSPECTION MARKS of a CROWN OVER E. These were known in the UK in the 1980s as "Heydrich Guns" because, from that batch, some of them (obviously never recovered) in 38 Super were supplied to the Czech agents parachuted into Europe to assassinate Reinhard Heydrich. The BNP MARK referered to are COMMERCIAL BIRMINGHAM PROOF HOUSE MARKS. These indicate a gun bought long after WWII, maybe in bulk from a "jobber" in the US or other foreign country, then imported into Britain for sale into the private civilian market. As such IMHO those Birmingham Proof Marks actually lower the value of the gun as a collector item. That it has BNP on it indicates that it was proved AFTER 1954. This may help: http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Dating%20your%20rifle.htm | |||
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My guess is that 1911 is NOT a truck gun. I do not know what it is worth, but Ithica did not make too many and depending on condition and matching numbers, there would be some collectors interest. | |||
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Unfortunately, the info provided by Endfieldspares may or may not be 100% correct. As I stated, there are more nuances regarding 1911 pistols than any other firearm I am aware of. It is now back home in the USA with the BNP/crown mark, so it clearly spent sometime in England, where the marks were applied. It was made in 1944. My guess is that it returned home sometime in 1955 or later. And "official" lend-lease is an incredible misnomer. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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In my opinion you have a rare piece of history Caretaker. | |||
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Ithaca made in 1945 BNP? If a Model 1911A1 made in 1945, by Ithaca, and marked "NOT ENGLISH MADE", is it BLL, still in 1945, and is it valuable? Thankyou, Andy http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16811 1945 Lend Lease Act 1911A1 I have a 1945 100% "mint" as in perfect in all respects 1911A1. I have never shot it. It's markings are below - "Not English Made " on the barrel & slide plus (3) proper proof marks and correct mark on the slide and ejector port "Released British Government 19XX"…?? cannot read the last two numbers on year date on the frame. A) Does it have a higher colector value or interest in the Colt collector world ? B) Is a letter from Colt going to add value to a collector on this gun at resale ? How do I get that letter. C) I have no value because this variation is not discussed in the Blue Book - Thanks John http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=9212 | |||
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What would you call this pistol? ![]() ![]() Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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