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| One of Us |
OK, standing around the gun emplacements at a local historical site with some "re-enactors" and their Jeeps. I'm looking at the guy's 1911A1, and he's telling me and an active duty diver from the Coast Guard that the military is going back to the 45 ACP. Do I need to pull on my boots? Or is 45 ACP FMJ mil-surp going to be back on the market? NATO needs to go with 45 ACP -- in a high cap, double stack something. I'm thinking a major contract with Croatia, if you catch my drift. | ||
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Any unit that can justify a "special need" gets 1911s of their choice in 45. For example, Marine Recon, Seals, green berets, etc. Probably the coast guard guy's unit said they needed stopping power at close quarters without overpenetration or something like that. | |||
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Nooooooo, mis-communications here. Coast Guard diver gets issued the Beretta 92FS (Or is it FS92) in 9mm. It was the "re-enactor" who was saying the military is reconsidering the 45 ACP. Seems like "special needs" would be, "I need to have the enemy die when I shoot him the first time." | |||
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Why a contract with Hrvatska -- ako vam mogu pitat? "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I was being obscure -- Springfield XD is manufactured in Croatia. The double stack 45 ACP, 5" bbl. "Tactical" seems like most everything the military could require in a side-arm. 13 + 1 capacity, grip safety, rugged, reliable, not a "Glock"  | |||
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Delta switched to the Glock .40 Cowboy Up People Sleep peaceful in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who would do them harm -George Orwell | |||
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I know my old unit 1st ANGLICO USMC went back to the 1911 right before OIF but other units like Force Recon were already using them. | |||
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The "military" has indeed been reconsidiering the .45 ACP. At present, I do believe their conclusion has been that there are indeed some kinds of units/personnel which need, and will receive, pistols so chambered; BUT, they also decided that the Italian "BB pistol" (9mm) is plenty good enough for most everyone els, especially those who carry a handgun as a "badge of office", and are not likely to need one anyway...... I believe it will be quite awhile before we see much in the way of SURPLUS AMMO coming from the military, seeing that as recently as early 2008, we couldn't even buy Federal primers...... "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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BS,BS,BS. Enough said. | |||
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I have always heard that Marine Recon, Rangers, SEAL Teams, and Special Forces, never switched to 9MM. | |||
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Forgive my ignorance. In the universe of M1911 clones which is the most physically reliable while retaining acceptable combat pistol accuracy? Limiting evaluation to physical reliability, how does the previously identified M1911 clone compare with 9 x 19 mm and 40 S&W pistols in current use by Western militaries and police forces? It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it. Sam Levinson | |||
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The word I get from armorers in the military is that the 9mm Beretta keeps breaking the slide and the barrel link. Evidently the "open top" slide feature weakens the slide at the the junction of the bolt face and the forward slide. It just breaks. Chuck Karwan has noted this breakage -- and that the 9mm in a combat operation is a bad idea. High cap. 45 ACP -- I got mine, w/ a laser sight. | |||
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 for the whole post.There is no barrel link on the Beretta but a locking/unlocking ramp.. | |||
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Back in the day, I had a friend involved in a helicopter assault who landed in a rice paddy and upon exiting the chopper, dropped his 1911A1. He reached down, picked up the piece, racked the slide, shook the sh!t out of the barrel and action, and went to war. Later he looked at the pistol and realized it was not his! God only knows how long it had been there in that paddy, seconds, months or years, but it fired without hesitation. The 1911A1 has a reputation for reliability and for stopping a fight at close quarters. Not has good as the 45 Long Colt, and not very accurate, but built with enough slop not to get put out of action by a little dirt or mud. I served with another officer who was in command of some troopers on D-Day who had a "meeting engagement" with a column of Germans. Everyone dived for the road side ditches. Unfortunately, my friend ended upon on the side most of the lead Germans choose! He was low crawling back across the road with his 1911A1 in his hand when at the crown of the road he met a German coming the other way. He did not aim; he just pulled the trigger on his pistol. He claimed to be the only person he knew of who could say with certainty he ever shot and hit a person in combat with a 45. Of course this was in the days before Delta and other SpecOps troops. Kudude | |||
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I wouldn't exactly say 9mm Beretta has a "barrel link". Anyways, the Germans used the P38 in the war. It's basically a pretty close type action as the Beretta. How many P38's have you heard that broke their slides and "barrel links". I have to give you post a  On another note I prefer the 1911 in 45acp over a 9mm. | |||
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The 1911 design is capable of incredible accuracy. What can make a 1911 inaccurate is mfg it with large tolerance for continued operation on combat conditions. That said for the average shooter 50 yards is about the limit for hitting a man sized target in the chest under combat conditions and almost all modern combat pistols are capable of that. I have only fired a handful WWII era 45s and they were all surprisingly accurate compared to what I expected. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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you sir have heard incorrect information LOL. i can tell you for sure they do get 9mm's but model is different, usually a sig P22? but alot of the SOCOM and SPECWAR community has access to 45acp calibers. such as Kimber and HK. either way i wouldnt want shot with a BB gun well maybe as long as it wasnt in the face and 3 pumps or less I may take one for the team I have trusted my life to the Beretta twice (2 tours) and both times i was perfectly confident that if i had to go to the M9 i still had a fighting chance, at least its better than a bayonet? Just my 2 peso's | |||
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This dog don't hunt. Wehrmacht officers were issued a pistol and two packets of 24 rounds. This was their issue for the war. Berettas have aluminum alloy frames while P-38's are steel. Aluminum alloy framed versions were designated P-1 after WW II. It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it. Sam Levinson | |||
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"The word I get . . ." That's attribution-speak for "hearsay. Hearsay . . . as in "that's the word I heard." Chuck Karwan, Combat Handgunnery -- circa 1995. I could cite it more accurately, but I gave the book away. It's no BS. I have a 45 ACP, high-cap, polymer, laser sight.  | |||
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No. Those are just the expressed wishes of people who like the 45 ACP. The military has recently procured tens of thousands (I don't remember the number) of new M92's. Special Units, like Delta Force, get to play with anything. These units are at most a couple of hundred guys. The Berretta is a relatively reliable weapon, hampered by crappy magazines and an underpowered round. I understand troopers in Iraqi are loading theirs with +P+ Hydrashocks, if they can get them. This is beating the pistol up. The Berretta has an aluminum frame. Aluminum, no matter how thick, has a finite fatigue lifetime. Unlike steel which can be made thick enough to have a infinite fatigue lifetime. Because of the material, all military M92’s will crack their frames in time. The expected lifetime is around 35,000 rounds. | |||
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I have noticed that men over age 50 prefer the 45acp for self defense. I have lots of Beretta 92 9mm pistols and lots of 1911 45acp pistols, and I would never carry the 9mms, because I am 56 years old. I got a bunch of the Beretta 92S pistols with mag release button the heel for cheap, without magazines. I got some Beretta 92F magazines cop surplus "cops only" assault weapons ban vintage. I had to cut the catch slots in the magazine bodies. To my horror, I found out that the magazine bodies were hardened steel. I had to cut the slots with carbide tools. I got the 92 mags to fit in the 92S pistols. I have shot them with 50% extra powder [10 gr PP 124 gr instead of 6.6 gr]. more than +P+ The case support is way better than needed. The slide is heavy. They could use more recoil spring with those loads. | |||
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First, I did not like the italian pistols. I was a 1911 shooter? One day, I tried a friend's 92 SB. After that day, I have owned and used 7 Beretta pistols. | |||
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Originally posted by Naphtali:
And they are wearing out less than WW2 pistols. | |||
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Slamfire said: <<The Berretta is a relatively reliable weapon, hampered by crappy magazines and an underpowered round. I understand troopers in Iraqi are loading theirs with +P+ Hydrashocks, if they can get them. This is beating the pistol up.>> The Beretta M9 is a relatively reliable weapon, for shooting at a pistol range on a nice day. Unfortunately, as I observed as a user of military M9's from 1988 to 2008, they are flimsy in the hands of a common soldier. Too many small parts that come out and break or are lost. Yes, down by the Tigris I did see some of the Special Guys with their M1911's; they are also getting SCARs at this time, meaning they get weapons that the line dogs do not. Such is reality. We did sometimes capture commercial ammo, to include 9mm JHP's but turned them in or destroyed them. Too much risk to get jammed up for firing illegal ammo in your gov't weapon (sounds silly, but there it is). I have read the Army Times are other articles about "wanting to replace the 9mm" pistols but have seen nothing substantive. While I agree that a .40 or .45 FMJ would be better, I guess the NATO thing still holds. The IP's and NP's I saw had Glock 9mm's, lucky guys. They had a better pistol than we did. sputster | |||
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1st ANGLICO is using the Beretta. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Military & Military Surplus US Military Going Back To 45 ACP ???
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