I'm thinking of purchasing a SMLE Mk.4 rifle in the near future, but have some reservations about it and thought I'd turn to you for advice. First, I'm thinking of using cast bullets exclusively, specifically Lyman #314299 @ ~1,750fps: Is this a mistake? (I know the bore dimensions on SMLE's can vary considerably and that my CB may be too small for the bore.) Can such bullets be patched [up] to fit the bore and be shot accurately (2 m.o.a.)? Can Mk IV's in very good or better condition be obtained at a reasonable price? (I don't want to sell my first-born!) Which dealers in the U.S. are reputable? Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Mk 4's are usually pretty reasonably accurate military rifles, by which I mean 2 MOA is the norm. I have used cast bullets in some of mine, and how they worked depended on bore condition and diameter. I've not tried bullet patching, prefering to size for the bore. There are a couple of 303 sites around, check some of them out, especially Steve Redgwalls' site. As to cost, the only Mk 4's that are really pricey are the sniper versions. I've seen new Mk 4's go for $250 CDN. - Dan

Dan, Thanks for the tip about Steve's site. I have it bookmarked and was also thinking about writing to him.

Paul, I'm guessing that you are talking about the MkI No.4 Enfield when you say MK IV. This would be the WWII model with aperture rear sight. I have a 1943 Fazakerly (the English arsenal that made it). I got lucky on the barrel, it is .3023" x .3138" and groups five in 2.5" at 100 yd. My Lyman 314299 casts .314" so is a vey good fit. When ordering moulds notice that there is a 311299 and a 314299 version of the same bullet design. This bullet has become my favorite in .30/06 also, when sized .310". I load it with sixteen gr. Alliant 2400 for a mv of 1480 fps. The reason I know the barrel dimensions so precisely is that it was measured by a fellow Cast Bullet Association member who has the kind of mike needed for odd numbers of grooves. He makes his service available gratis for CBA members. No. 4 rifles with the best reputation for accuracy are Long Branch (Canadian) and Savage (yes, our Savage). I believe both of these have four groove rifling, instead of the English five groove. Steve Redgewell's site is the greatest IMHO. Hope this helps, curmudgeon

Paul, Two things I forgot to address in my lengthy post: No. 4 rifles seem to have disappeared from the big milsurp dealers ads, so they are where you find them. And, I have no paper patching experience. Regards, curmudgeon

If you get a Lyman .314" bullet, it will invariably come out larger than .314" Your problem will be sizing it down without distorting it, unless it is no more than .002" over the groove diameter of your rifle, in which case, you can shoot it as-cast. If you shoot them as-cast, you will have to put the gascheck on them and lube them by hand, but this is no disadvantage. IF the bullets turnout undersized, you could use them as paper-patched bullets, but I seriously doubt that it will be undersized. I have used a Lyman .31141 bullet successfully in a .303. a 7.65X53mm Argentine, and in an SKS!!The SMLE in .303 British is a rifle that is ideal for shooting cast bullets, just as is the .30/40 Krag, and you should be able to work up an accurate load. I suggest to begin with, you cast the bullets of wheelweight metal, and drop them HOT, right from the mould, into a bucket of cold water with a folded towel on the bottom to catch them without damage. Cast bullets are much more fragile than jacketed ones, and must be carefully handled. Let them stabilize for two or three days after casting, to attin their full hardness. I am partial to slower powders for cast bullets in HP rifles, as they give you better loading density, hence, more uniform igniton, and they accelerate the bullet more gradually with less deformation. Use a powder like 3031, 4895, or 4064 to start, and load for about 1800-2000 FPS MV. I don't agree with the concept of using fast (pistol) powders in bottleneck rifle cases as Lyman generally shows in their cast bullet loading data!! Lube your bullets with LBT Blue lube, if available, or use NRA formula Alox lube, which is still pretty satisfactory up to 2200 FPS or so. Make sure you bell the mouths of your cases using a Lyman "M" die, so there's no lead shaved off the bullets when you seat them. In my experience, nothing destroys accuracy faster than a shaved bullet!! Never use a bullet that does not have a PERFECT BASE!! Good Luck!

[ 03-09-2003, 22:13: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Curmudgeon & Eldeguello, Thanks for the correction and the advice. I too have used #314299 in a variety of "metric .30's", generally with excellent results. I.e., I size them as small as .311" for my Finn. Nagant (.312" for my Model 39)and as large as .314" for my Arg. Mau. and even my SKS. As for distortion, I find the Lee sizing dies are the best thing since sliced bread for sizing oversized CB's to a given dimension, e.g. .314" to .311". Btw, you may know me better as Maven on the Shooter's Talk, CB Board. I'll be looking around for a Mk. 1 #4!

May I suggest that you work out what you want first. Either a Short Magazine Lee Enfield known as Rifle No 1 Mk III (with magazine cutoff) or Rifle No 1 Mk III* (without magazine cutoff) both with a rear sight in front of the receiver. WW1 issue. OR a Rifle No 4 Mk 1 or Mk 2 WW2 issue. With aperture rear site.

SMLES were made in the U.K. Australia and India. India and Australia continued production throughout WW2. No 4 s were made in the UK the US and Canada. The best are said to be Canadian Long Branch NO 4 Mk2s.

Be VERY wary of No 4T sniper rifles. They are so expensive that there are a lot of bitsas out there. (FAKES)

I strongly suggest that you read Ian Skennertons book on Lee Enfields first.
David

The SMLE's I liked best were the Jungle Carbines. I have gotten 1 MOA from several of these, using handloads with 308" diameter 200-grain Nosler Partition bullets!! Have had the same performance from 200 grain Sierra and Nosler .308" bullets in one M 1909 Argentine (29" bbl.).

[ 03-11-2003, 20:19: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Today a neighbor brought over a SMLE and asked me to give him some idea of what it is worth. I know little about these rifles.
Markings on the left side of the receiver are;
No 4 MK 1 (F) FTR
/ 49 KC25112

I assume that the bottom number is the S/N.
I has been sporterized using the military stock, and the barrel is 21.5 inches measured to the rear of the receiver ring. The military sights are still on it, and the rear is a peep. The front sight looks as if it was original, and it made me wonder if it was a Jungle Carbine, but I do not find any designation. I thought they were No5.

I had heard that the number 4 rifles tended to have oversize chambers and therefore were a pain to reload.

Can anyone identify the rifle, and what a rough sporterized one is worth? It appears to be in excellent shape.Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jerry

A sporterized No. 4 MK I with FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) at F (Fazerkly) in 49 (1949) with sn of KC25112. Not particularly valuable, $ wise. Depending on which type of rear sight (I'd think the milled full leaf rear sight as opposed to the one with a stamped body or the 2 leg "flipper"), I'd pay maybe $125. But then I'd be looking to properly stock it, etc.

I don't find the No. 4 chambers to be particularly troublesome. Brass for my 2 rifles has gone 5 reloads. I think that is about max for the rifle in general and many get no more than 3 reloads. Depends on how hot you load them. Mine are loaded to match the service load.

The FTRed rifles are not likely to have the problems that rifles direct from the combat zones might. These guns often hold 2 MOA but many go 3 MOA the worst going 4 MOA. Bedding adjustments often do wonders.

Also, you're right, No. 5 is the "jungle carbine".

Hobie,
Thanks a lot.
It is something that would make a good truck gun, I think. I am not interested in it, but maybe he can find someone who is locally.
The $125 is better than I supposed.

Is the 21.5" barrel length standard or has it been shortened?

Thanks again,
Jerry

[ 03-14-2003, 04:35: Message edited by: JerryM ]

I was thinking standard is 25" but i just measured my No. 4 MK I* and it is 24�" front of the receiver ring to end of barrel. Whoever buys it may need to recrown.

Thanks again, Hobie. I thought that the barrel had been shortened, but the sight looked so much like the original front sight and the barrel is crowned that I wondered if it was the original length.

Someone did good work.

Jerry

Hobie, My No.4 measures 24.5" from the front of the receiver ring, so yours has not been cut. These rifles will measure 25" FROM THE FACE OF THE CLOSED BOLT. Another quick check is, it should be 1" from the front of the bayonet lug to the muzzle. Hope this helps, curmudgeon

Oops, sorry Hobie, now I have it right. Jery M has the No. 4 in question. For some interesting information on brass life in No. 4 rifles see the two discussions on the .303 Page by steve Redgewell and some other guy. Regards, curmudgeon