Its development was different from what the Russians would have you believe. http://www.popularmechanics.co...t-important-gun-ever

The basic innovation was the Sturmgewehr 44 with stamped instead of machined parts and a shortened cartride 8x33 mm maintaining the official rifle caliber of the Wehrmacht. Sorry to say but what Mikhail Kalashnikov did was basically an improvement on an already existing design.

Yes, the AK-47 is based upon the German Sturmgewehr, the article says that. The point is Mikhail Klashnikov did not have as big a part of designing the AK-47 as Russian propaganda would have us believe.

not only did he copy the mp 44. the russians couldnt make a suitable stamped receiver until the late 1950s to lighten the gun.

Anything that is related to politics is always going to have mistruths attached to it, weapons of all shapes and sizes included, so always keep that in mind no matter what you are reading about.

Having said that, I'm looking forward to reading this book as I thought the write up was pretty interesting.

What does it matter? There are 100 million of them out there, they go bang (or rather bang, bang, bang very fast) every time, and the guys who live around the Khyber Pass can make them by hand from scratch! I have one. It won't go to Camp Perry but it is a serious defensive weapon for me. Now, those of you who hate Kalashnikov because he is Russian and light candles in front of a picture of John Browning, well, you might just have to get over that!
Peter.

Who's Samuel Browning?

OOPS! John Browning! Thanks, I have amended my post! Mind goes when you are on a rant! As you can see it was rather late!
Peter.

I would presume that the two most innovative ideas of both rifles are the short rounds and the metal stamping instead of more expensive and time demanding milling.

Not only did they copy it, but the man that developed the stg44 spent time as a guest of the Russian in a work camp very near the factory that developed the AK. Now that will make you scratch your head.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Ok, I have a real STG 44, and Kalishnikov did copy the general idea of it, but did not copy the bolt locking system. And the Russians couldn't make stampings work like the Germans did, so the AK47s were milled until the AKMs came out many years later. The MP/STG uses a tilting bolt system sort of like an FN 49 or FAL. The Russians use a rotating bolt. Gas system is the same idea, as is, the ammo.

Hugo Schmeisser was "invited" by the Soviets in Tula where he worked closely with MT Kalashnikov who did not know anything about industrial preocesses unlike H Schmeisser who is behind the industrialisation of the stamping process at Haenel and Walther.

When Hugo Schmeisser was allowed to leave Soviet Union 10 years latrer, he was assigned to residence in East Germany and never disclosed anything about his years in Soviet Union. The AKM was lauched when he was there..

How can someone seriously use the words "storm rifle"....

The German's actually copied the idea for the "Storm rifle" from the Italian's who had a concept gun first-- chambering the 7.35X32 round which predated the German 7.92X33.

The Italian cartridge was good,
it's weapons platform not so much so,
and as Germany ascended the development
program was dropped.

Also, the MKb-H 42 and STG 44 were more closely the progenitors of the CETME and HK operating systems than the AK system.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
How can someone seriously use the words "storm rifle"....

Pretty cool name for a rifle if you ask me.

Ask the guys who ran away from the Maginot Line about that rifle

.

When you are the victors, you get to write the history book.

Has been done many times before.

.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
The German's actually copied the idea for the "Storm rifle" from the Italian's who had a concept gun first-- chambering the 7.35X32 round which predated the German 7.92X33.

The Italian cartridge was good,
it's weapons platform not so much so,
and as Germany ascended the development
program was dropped.

Also, the MKb-H 42 and STG 44 were more closely the progenitors of the CETME and HK operating systems than the AK system.

I never heard of an italian attempt to an intermediate power round. Any link?

Zev,
No link I know of.

I read about it in a book on the Carcano.
If I recall correctly Revelli (the Glisenti Pistol and Fiat machinegun designer) designed the prototype,

a small run was made but eventually it was dropped in favor of the ill fated Ag 39, (and only about 500 or so of those were produced.)

As far as I know, there was no intermediate cartridge being developped in Italy. They went the other way, starting to design rifles for more powerful rounds than the 6.5 mm Carcano and produced one of the best SMGs.

Beware of some books that just reproduce hearsay.

Two recent examples, one stated the Italian fielded the Beretta 1918 months before the Bergmann 1918, historically untrue and based on an internet site myth..
A second book about the american sniper in Iraq states that terrorists supported by Iran used the Steyyr HS 50, we know that Steyr never delivered them to Iran and US apologised to Austria for this false statement of US ttroops..

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Who's Samuel Browning?

John Colt's half brother.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
How can someone seriously use the words "storm rifle"....

Because the bullets come out of the muzzle like pouring rain.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
What does it matter? There are 100 million of them out there, they go bang (or rather bang, bang, bang very fast) every time, and the guys who live around the Khyber Pass can make them by hand from scratch! I have one. It won't go to Camp Perry but it is a serious defensive weapon for me. Now, those of you who hate Kalashnikov because he is Russian and light candles in front of a picture of John Browning, well, you might just have to get over that!
Peter.

+1

I still amazed at how the AK functions with so much carbon and dust affecting the funcationality of it.