I know absolutely nothing about these things except for they shoot 7.62x54R's. Gun shop here has two of them, one for about 175 and another with what appears to be the original scope for about 400. what should i look for before thinking about buying one?

I own a "few" of them.They are what they are....tough,decent shooters.Also reload and shoot them.This ought to keep you busy for a while.
http://mosinnagant.net/USSR/default.asp

A M91/30

And its target @50yds with 48gr Varget,123gr .310 diameter bullet.Loaded with Lee Loader at the range.

Exactly what the other poster said. You mentioned one with a scope for $400, sounds like a snipers model. Before you think about buyting that one, if you want the cream of the crop in Mosin Nagants, then buy a Finn M39. The Finns took Mosin Nagants and rebarreled them with heavier better made barrels with smaller more useable groove and bore dimensions, stocked them with a better stock and bedding, and improved the trigger some. You'll be pleasantly surprised with a Finn 39 then with one of the mill Russian Mosin Nagants.

Make sure it's an original. Go to surplusrifle.com and check the forum there. Lots of good info. I bought a ton of them when they were cheap. Can't go wrong with a descent shooter for under 80 dollars.

They stood up on the Russian front because of their simple yet very rugged design. I have two. Thanks...Bill.

I agree with MaxPayne. I have a couple of the Finns, most of the Russkies are garbage compared to them.

I prefer the Finn rifles built on Russian actions, but I prefer the Model 28/30 to the M39....really like the heavier barrel and the screw-adjustable windage front sight.

Here is one site which shows many of the different variations. http://www.mosinnagant.net/

For a great deal more info from many more collector's/shooter's sites, just "Google" Moisin Nagant Rifles

I'd stay away from the "sniper" model until you know what you're looking at. There are lots of "fakes" in the Mosin sniper on on the market.

7.62 X 54R is a funky caliber, 19th Cent. design, rimmed brass. Bolt on the Mosin is also funky, "unnecessarily complicated" according to the Brit. stuffed shirt Ian Hogg.

Century Imports and Big Five used to sell the Mosins -- several models -- for less than $100, like 8 yrs ago.

Most of the Mosins available have mis-matched bolts. Different serial numbers on bolt and rest of gun. Most feel this puts head-spacing on the bolt into question.

I MUCH prefer the 8mm Mausers. Nicer design, more modern ammo design.


I'm not up to speed on current prices.

Actually, the 7.62x54-R cartridge is an excellent one...good enough the Russians (and a number of other countries) still use it in various of their first line military arms for special applications and/or MGs. I suspect we will also be seeing a lot more of it in Iraq (from the wrong end) as the Jihaadists get more into sniping....which they are doing even as we speak.

It is, after all, only 15 years older than the '06 round. And speaking of the '06, it is entirely feasible to load the 7.62x54-R to '06 equivalent power.

Also, though the Moisin Nagant action design may be "Funky" or even "ugly" or "clumsy" to many western Europeans/North Americans, it is hell for stout, and extremely reliable even in the far sub-zero cold of the North.

They are still frequently available at $100 or under, too.

I have owned and shot Mosins quite a lot. Also hunted with them. At the moment I don't own any. They are really rugged and often very accurate too, the Finnish M39 really being the best of all IMHO. But they have their less attractive features as well, due to which I've changed to M98 as my only mil-surplus rifle (it is rebarreled to 7,62x54R, which is really a very good round.)

Mosin's problems I find to be these:
1. the safety is really annoying, especially in cold weather and when using gloves. Matters when you're hunting.
2. As they get old, the trigger mechanism becomes often dangerous, letting the gun to fire when safety is released or when the gun gets even a slight hit. Happens to most of them after years.
3. IF the case brass should give in under heavy pressure, the Mosin lock blows the gas and metal scrap right on your face. This happens every now and then with surplus ammo that have metal cases.
4. Installing a scope is difficult. I had one in my M39 and it was ok, although it also needed a new bolt.

All in all, they are what they are: tough old war rifles, with certain drawbacks when compared to modern rifles. But if you get one very cheap, I would give it a go, just for fun

I have sporterized a few 91/30's, M44s, and an M39.

The recievers made on or before 1941 that have inner stop rings are better.

Remington 700s, Win 70s, and Sav 110s are too cheap to have inner stop rings, but Montana Rifleman has inner stop rings.

That way the breech pushes on the inner stop ring and the shoulder pushes, or gets damped, by the outer ring of the receiver.

The going rate for a used Mosin Nagant is from $35 for a 91/30 with rotted out bore to $400 for a sniper with scope.

Rebarrelling is a pain, becuase the 7.62x54R reamer costs extra, the extractor releif cut on the breech is extra machining, and the guns are so ugly they have little resale value to justify the expense.

I have made one into a 45/70 and one into a 30-30.

I use to be a Mosin Nagant negative knocker, that is until my friend tried to blow one up on purpose. He couldn't pack enough normal rifle powder in the case to hurt it. I told him how Jap Arisaka's were tested for blowup with full cases of Bullseye. Well he went that route. All it managed to do was put a slight bulge in the chamber. Didn't even wreck the bolt. After that I got me one. By the way the one he tried to destroy was a 1944 round receiver model. After I got mine, the more I studied it the more I admired it. Ok, as far as the bolt. The bolt has a removeable head. Once that head is fitted correctly for headspace it doesn't matter what other parts on the bolt are mismatched. If you and your friend have a Mosin, you can interchange bolt parts, but still keeping the head to your particular rifle and no harm is done. This is one of the beauties of the design. Another thing due to design is that the cartridge is fully inserted into the chamber right up to the face of the rimm. No extractor cuts or slot, good solid steel all the ways around the entire cartridge. You can't say that about a Mauser. Single stack magazine equal flawless feeding. The Rooskies knew what they were doing. May be ugly and heavy, but it works and it's a good strong rifle. By the way the OLD cartridge is equilant to or perhaps beats the 308 Win. That 7.62x54R might not look as big as a 30-06 but it holds damn near as much powder. Like I've said many times before and elsewhere, each country's rifle had good features and bad. Don't knock the Mosins, they're a good stout rifle.

Pictures?

It costs me allot of money to blow up a gun for one data point.

My friend had pictures, but honestly there was nothing you could tell from them. Looked like a normal rifle. He took the barrel off gave it to me, and think he sold the action. It was hard to tell the barrel had a swollen chamber. I was impressed. Sure would like to see what a 98 Mauser would do with a full case of Bullseye.

I have blown up or tried to blow up lots of guns. Many guns are very hard to blow up, but there are three types that are easy to blow:
1) CZ52 pistols split in the thin spot at the bottom of the chamber
2) Antique break top revolvers stretch the latch and get loose
3) Modern revolvers with then cylinder walls break the cylinder in to two or three pieces and break the top strap half the time.
4) Modern revolvers get rotationally loose when they should be locked up tight.

But bolt action military rifles are not easy to wreck.
I have never been able to harm one, but I have seen several with the bolt set back far enough to affect headspace.

do you use the name of clark something on other forums? I think I know of you.

The Mosins are tough, I admit. About ten? years ago there was an article in a Finnish gun magazine, in which the editors told about their eaxperiences of trying to blow up a Mosin 1891 rifle. They first tried all sorts of overcharges with Vihtavuori rifle powders (N100-series) and as they had no effect on the gun, they switched to pistol/shotgun powders (N310, N320 and N340). With them they managed to blow up a couple of cases and get the lock stuck, but the gun was still in one piece and seemed to be OK. They finally ended up filling the barrel with an electric primer and couple of grams of dynamite, which blew up the barrel, but the lock was still intact!

Not bad, even though many of the overcharges would have caused damage to shooter's eyes and hands, but the bolt wouldn't have pierced his head or anything. That speaks for itself, but after all - a crowbar will handle much more mutilation, but it still doesn't tell much about its abilities as a shooting weapon. And as a rifle used for shooting normal pressured rounds by normal people, there are better military rifles to have. Mauser 98 being one the best candidates IMHO.

It was one of the shooting rags about a year ago that ran a test on the Mosin against the Mauser for a battlerifle. The Mosin beat the Mauser in quite a few areas, some of them being better sight picture for quich shooting of enemy soldiers, better clip for the ammo. I forget the others. Don't get me wrong I dearly love my Mausers, but you do have to admit their sights don't lend to quick acquisition of the target especially in bad lighting.

I like them all. Last year I bought more Mosin's and Mauser's than was smart to do. Cheap enough to get one of each and decide which one you personally like.

quote:

Originally posted by JTH:
The Mosins are tough, I admit. - a crowbar will handle much more mutilation, but it still doesn't tell much about its abilities as a shooting weapon. And as a rifle used for shooting normal pressured rounds by normal people, there are better military rifles to have. Mauser 98 being one the best candidates IMHO.

JRH-

You are right about Mausers when it comes to sporting weapons for hunting. It appears though that the Russkies did very well in a great many Olympic settings using accurized military Mosin actions for target shooting purposes. Not too many standard-but-accurized Mausers in the record books in that environment, at least I don't recall many (if any).