Has this design been refined and adapted by any Army? If not, why not? I always thought it looked compact, had an insane rate of fire, and was a fairly simple design. I am no expert and don't pretend to be, but i can't for the life of me noodle out why it wasn't picked up by someone, unless it was, but I've seen nothing on it.

It has been used by FRG, the US in the form of the M60, etc. However, there are better.

I don't suppose you read much... Lots of articles and in books out there.

Yes.... the MG3 http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg08-e.htm

The U.S. M 60 has some of the MG 42's design features. One of the most useful is the quick-change barrel seetup vs the browning. However, believe it or not, the rate of fire of the MG 42 was TOO HIGH!! Wasted a lot of ammo....

The MG-42 is a design over 60 years old now, and currently know as the MG-3 in Germany. It's been produced by the Yugoslavians, Portugese, Spain, and several other countries. It is (IMHO) the finest GPMG ever produced.

It's weight is about 25 pounds, it's solid, reliable, easily maintained, and, as originally produced, provided with an awesome rate of fire. 1,200 rpm was the rate of fire when it was used by the Whermacht. It's now been reduced to about 600 rpm. It's barrel change is the standard by which others are now judged, and I feel it is the best. There are no threads to bugger up, and it is just the throw of a toggle lever. Simple, unique, perfect.

Hobie seems to think there are better, but I've never seen it. I've fired the M240 B which is now standard issue, and I think the MG-3 is superior. Now if the M240 B was a little lighter, I think it would have the edge as it is very, very, accurate. But holy moly does it get heavy fast!

Anyway, as for your original question, the MG-42 is still in use, over many parts of the world, by many different countries.

Regards,

Eric

[ 08-23-2003, 14:07: Message edited by: Eric ]

The MG-42 is adopted in a 7.62 Nato as the MG3 here in Norway. It has been in use for the last 50 years. The bolt is heavier so it doesn't have such an extrem rate of fire.

Buy some good(Thick) books on the subjeckt.

Johan

Jeez guys, I do read alot. I'm just reading the wrong stuff. But thank you for the info.

ops.

I haven't read the book for a some time. You are probably right.

It's the german model MG1A2 from Rheinmettal that has a heavier bolt. It slows the rate down to 700-900 shot per min.
The MG3 has two types of bolts in the MG1 series. one for 1000-1300 and one on 700-900.

I though we used the heavy bolt, but this was wrong.

I got the info from "small arms of the world" by Ezell. Great book by the way.

Johan

One of my funniest memories is watching police cadets practice fighting in built up areas (FIBUA) in Berlin. They were wearing dark grey/geen coveralls, leather webbing, coal scuttle helmets and the ribbed canteens carrying HK G3s or MG3s Very strange sight!

During their break we chatted to their instructor who showed us the MG. Some MG3s are MG42 with 7.62 barrels and the Nazi bits crossed out! You could still see the eagle and swastika underneath the cross!

There is also a Yugoslavian copy of it, in the same caliber as the original.

When I participated in the Schutzeschnur in 1990, I remember the MG3. Good gun. However, it takes a veeeeeeeery sensitive finger to keep from squirting every single round in a belt before you're able to adjust your tracers on target.

They didn't give me enough ammo to get good at it. And I consider myself to be one of the high skill guys with a machine gun.

However, I got to watch some bundeswehr guys just knock the crap out of the target with it, so I imagine that with practice, I'd love it.

Gentlemen

On the Swedish tanks there are a MG mounted. It's made by reinmetallwerke. it's a funny piece of gun, ammo never gets old . I know that Austrains and Italians have them too. Sometimes they are called mg-42?/53 or mg-42/59. The MG-34 is much better quality than the MG-42 and is a dream to use. MG-42 were developed to speed up the manufacturing by useing sheat metall in the construction.

/ JOHAN

[ 09-05-2003, 22:55: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

Somebody step up and help: The MG34 had a trigger with a center pivot; pull on the top, full auto - pull on the bottom and semi-auto. The MG42 was full-auto only w/ no provision for semi-auto fire?
All correct???
Inform me, don't flame me.

"Trap,"

There were several distinct models of the MG-34. Along with the original there was the MG-34S and the MG34-41 which were slightly shorter in length and full auto only.

As Johan said, the MG-34 was a finer made weapon, but actually the MG-42 was more reliable. The tight tolerances of the '34 were a detriment in all weathers and the roller bolt system of the '42 was superior. All that now in a cheaper gun!

I still think it is the best GPMG their is, even if it does waste ammo.

But is it a waste if it works and does it's job?

Nah!

Try looking at Smiths & Smiths "Small Arms of the World." Great book if you can find it. Not only has the history, operating information, and characteristics of a weapon, but they tell you how to take it apart. Now that's a book!

Regards,

Eric

Well, DUH! About all I had to do was to go look and I would have found my answer! "Maschinengewehr-34 (Machine gun, model of 1934), or MG-34, is known as a main infantry support weapon of the Wehrmacht (Hitlers' German Army) through first half of the World War 2, and main vehicle (tank) machine gun of the same during the whole war. MG-34 also is nototious for being the first ever true Universal machine gun, that could be used as a light machine gun from bipod, as a sustained fire, medium machine gun on tripod, as a tank or AA gun.

MG-34 was designed in the early 1930s by the team lead by Louis Stange at Rheinmetall, leading German arms manufacturer at that time. Final design, adopted for service in 1934, incorporated numerous features from experimental prototypes built by Rheinmetall, Mauser-werke, and others. As was requested by German army, it was a truly universal machine gun, capable of different roles. It was put into production circa 1935, and remained an official MG of the Wehrmacht until 1942, when it was oficially replaced my more reliable and cheap MG-42. But, despite this, MG-34 continued to serve untill the end of WW2, mostly as a tank gun, because it was better suited for this role than the MG-42.

MG-34 is a recoil-operated, selective fire weapon. It uses short recoiling barrel with muzzle recoil booster which also serves as a flash hider. Barrel locking is achieved by the rotating bolt head, with interrupted threads locking lugs, that lock into the barrel extension. Bolt head has a set of rollers, located just behind the lugs. These rollers are used to rotate bolt heads to lock and unlock, when riding inside the curved grooves, cut on the inner walls of the receiver. Rollers also act as a bolt accelerator, when bolt unlocks, due to interoperation with the barrel extension. Tubular receiver is linked to the tubular barrel sleeve by the swinging stud, set at the right side of the receiver, so receiver can be turned up and to the right relatively tho the barrel sleeve, thus exposing the barrel rear end. When receiver is opened, barrel can be simply withdrawn from its sleeve to the back, but when barrel is hot, this requires some sort of the heat protection, so MG-34 operator had to use asbestos glove which was a standard acessory to the gun. MG-34 usually was issued with belt feed, which was operated by the stud on the top of the bolt body. Belt feed could be easily set up to take the belt from the left or from the right side of the gun. With special replacement feed cover, a double-drum, saddle-type 75 rounds magazines can be used. MG-34 was a selective fire weapon, with mode of fire being controlled by dual trigger. A pull on the upper part of the trigger produced single shots, while a pull on the lower part produced full auto bursts.
Being an universal MG, MG-34 could be used in different configurations. As a light MG, it was used from light, folding bipods, which could be set up either under the muzzle or under the guns' center of gravity, allowing for better stability or better field of fire, respectively. In this mode MG-34 was usually fed from 50-rounds truncated-cone belt boxes, made of tin. Belt boxes were cillped to the receiver and allowed the gun to be carried loaded withouth dangers of belt being jammed.

In sustained fire role, MG-34 was mounted on the special tripod of very complicated and expensive design, called Lafette-34. This tripod allowed for direct or indirect fire missions, and was equipped with recoil dampers, special fire control unit and an optical scope mount. With the use of the special adapter, this tripod also can be used for antiaircraft role. For dedicated air-defence missions a special, lightweight AA tripod was also available.

As a tank gun, MG-34 was equipped with heavier barrel and armoured barrel jacket withouth the vent holes.

In general, MG-34 was an outstanding weapon, with wery fine finish and made to tight tolerances, but this become also its biggest drawback - being too expensive and too slow to manufacture, MG-34 was less than suitable for mass wartime production. It also was somewhat sensitive to dirt and fouling, a standard atrribute of the western front battles. But the most major advantage of the MG-34 was its versatility, and it set the trend for numerous latter designs. "
And nothing like being ass-backwards - - I thought the lower half trigger pull was semi-auto. Still seems to have been a fine weapon.
Regards,

MG 42 was/is indeed a good gun, better than the M60 in just about all respects.

I don't think the barrel change was "perfect", although it is pretty good. An asbestos glove was standard issue, because there's no way to attach a handle for the hot barrel because the barrel has to slide back through its trunnion to be removed. I greatly prefer the Bren's barrel change over any other I've used.

The rate of fire at 1200 rpm is useable with some experience, and I can easily fire short bursts of four or five rounds very consistently. In the LMG role, this is very effective. The FEWEST rounds I was ever able to fire was three, and that was unusual. Four is more like it.

Ours was a 'bnz' code, and worked very reliably indeed. A five-round burst was very accurate out to over 1200 yards (measured on a map, firing at rocks in water in a SAFE "undisclosed location".) One or two rounds would impact the water on the near side of the rock, and maybe one or two on the far side....which means the the nearest one or two could ricochet into the target and the other three were either ON the target or grazing it. That is very effective fire from a bipod, let me assure you. All the dispersion was vertical, as well....nice shooting gun.

To see this gun, go to www.castpics.net, then Special Projects, and then to "Der Schuetzenwagen". Scroll to the bottom. The gun is decidedly loaded, as you can see the belt laying across the lady's left forearm and feeding into the receiver.

Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1)

Bruce,
For some reason your link just plain doesn't lead back to castpics...I tried a couple different times but no go. I am going to help you out though and lead these fine folks to the promised land in the form of your pic....right here,right now.
Enjoy folks 45nut

You guys are punctuating immediately after the urls you post. The punctuation then gets erroneously included in the link. For instance try www.ar15.com then try www.ar15.com.
The period at the end of the last link muffs it up.

I have just been to the Defence Systems and Equipment international exhibition in London and there were several MG 42s on display (or whatever their various manufacturers now call them).

The only other weapon which seemed to be better represented was the .50 M2HB, which was there to demonstrate a range of mountings for it.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
forum

Having not read all of this I may be repeating the obvious but...

I suppose you know that the MG34 and MG42 are being made again in semi-automatic form by TNW. The original run of each are in 8mm I believe but 308's were to follow last time I check.

Though I'd have to go look the exact titles up (which I will do if someone e-mails me), there is a set of EXCELLENT British book one of which covers these weapons in excellent detail. The books (one of matchlocks if memory serves, another on WWI machine guns and a third on WWII German Weapons I think) go over these in briliant detail.

Searching something, I saw this old post.
M 60 is NOT derived from MG 42 but from the latest version of FG 42

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=698103008#698103008

Just saw this too; yes, the M60 uses a rotating bolt , true, like the FG42, but in reality the Lewis gun used that long before both of them. that is gas operated, whereas the MG42 uses a roller delayed/locked bolt that is recoil operated. The MG34 uses a rotating bolt, recoil operated. The barrel moves in them.
Rat of fire for an MG42 is entirely too high to be practical; wastes too much ammo.

look at the feeding system