Smokin J -

I idn't know you were a fellow Canuck!

Anyhow, I thank for for your very well stated short history of the merchant navy and its problems in WWII. I could have not have said it nearly so well.

I would only add in that even when the Enigma code WAS broken, thanks both to the boys at Bletchley and the capture of an enigma machine from a German sub, together with some help from the Polish intelligence service, the information was sometimes NOT given to our troops, Merchantmen, or even English towns about to be bombed.

It was considered important enough that the Germans NOT know we had cracked their codes, that thousands of Brit urban residents, merchant navy sailors, and allied servicemen were sometimes sacrificed to keep the Germans still using codes we had already compromised, so that we might get not only tactical intelligence, but the even more important STRATEGIC intelligence as well.

A lot of senior folk such as Lord Churchill had a bunch of sleepless nights over that necessity.

Best wishes,

AC

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
You want to know what you are? You, Alberta Canuck, are a criminal.

You're complaining that nobody gives proper credit to Merchant Marine crewmen on a thread dedicated to Navy Boilermen.

How does that work?

In case it's not clear, I haven't been serious from the jump.

I am a CRIMINAL?

And exactly where did I complain that no one gives credit to merchant seaman? I simply reminded those who may not know or did not remember, that the merchantmen were very brave folks who showed as much guts, or possibly even sometimes more, than those folks who were in tough places also, but had the wherewithal to at least fight back.

If that makes me a criminal, I am proud to be one.

I don't think it is too much a presumption or a big crime to remember those who did so much for us, even if they weren't invading islands or Omaha Beach, or bombing Berlin.

So, I take it as humour, and hope dearly that it is so, your line that says you aren't really serious.

I try to respect everyone's view. As a survivor of WWII, I just try to remember and honour ALL those whom I owe.

Let's sort this out. It's not a crime to pay tribute to those who've served.

It's just that you were taking me to task for not paying proper respect to the Merchant Marines.

And then it dawned on me; didn't someone start this thread about Navy watertenders?

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
You want to know what you are? You, Alberta Canuck, are a criminal.

You're complaining that nobody gives proper credit to Merchant Marine crewmen on a thread dedicated to Navy Boilermen.

How does that work?

In case it's not clear, I haven't been serious from the jump.

I am a CRIMINAL?

And exactly where did I complain that no one gives credit to merchant seaman? I simply reminded those who may not know or did not remember, that the merchantmen were very brave folks who showed as much guts, or possibly even sometimes more, than those folks who were in tough places also, but had the wherewithal to at least fight back.

If that makes me a criminal, I am proud to be one.

I don't think it is too much a presumption or a big crime to remember those who did so much for us, even if they weren't invading islands or Omaha Beach, or bombing Berlin.

So, I take it as humour, and hope dearly that it is so, your line that says you aren't really serious.

I try to respect everyone's view. As a survivor of WWII, I just try to remember and honour ALL those whom I owe.

Let's sort this out. It's not a crime to pay tribute to those who've served.

It's just that you were taking me to task for not paying proper respect to the Merchant Marines.

If we are really going to sort this out, you need to understand that I was not taking YOU or anyone else to task. I was simply stating that I felt the guys down in the "hole" in the merchant navy deserved some recognition too.

That doesn't mean any disrespect to the navy guys.

Respect is a lot like love for ones' kids. Just because a dad loves his daughter Sally doesn't mean he has no love left for his son Jimmy, too.

So, just because I owe sailors of any/every rank and rating for their service does not mean I don't owe just as much to civilians who did a job at least as dangerous, with even less chance of surviving it.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
You want to know what you are? You, Alberta Canuck, are a criminal.

You're complaining that nobody gives proper credit to Merchant Marine crewmen on a thread dedicated to Navy Boilermen.

How does that work?

In case it's not clear, I haven't been serious from the jump.

I am a CRIMINAL?

And exactly where did I complain that no one gives credit to merchant seaman? I simply reminded those who may not know or did not remember, that the merchantmen were very brave folks who showed as much guts, or possibly even sometimes more, than those folks who were in tough places also, but had the wherewithal to at least fight back.

If that makes me a criminal, I am proud to be one.

I don't think it is too much a presumption or a big crime to remember those who did so much for us, even if they weren't invading islands or Omaha Beach, or bombing Berlin.

So, I take it as humour, and hope dearly that it is so, your line that says you aren't really serious.

I try to respect everyone's view. As a survivor of WWII, I just try to remember and honour ALL those whom I owe.

Let's sort this out. It's not a crime to pay tribute to those who've served.

It's just that you were taking me to task for not paying proper respect to the Merchant Marines.

If we are really going to sort this out, you need to understand that I was not taking YOU or anyone else to task. I was simply stating that I felt the guys down in the "hole" in the merchant navy deserved some recognition too.

That doesn't mean any disrespect to the navy guys.

Respect is a lot like love for ones' kids. Just because a dad loves his daughter Sally doesn't mean he has no love left for his son Jimmy, too.

So, just because I owe sailors of any/every rank and rating for their service does not mean I don't owe just as much to civilians who did a job at least as dangerous, with even less chance of surviving it.

I was being facetious. There is nothing "criminal" about talking about merchant marine boilermen on this thread.

Frankly, I don't think the merchant marines get the credit they deserve. If it takes guts to stay below and man your station on (in the case of the Gridley class) a well-armed destroyer that reached nearly 43 knots during accepatance trials, though admittedly at light displacement, how much more to do the same on a barely armed merchant capable of maybe 10 knots in a sea filled with German wolfpacks?

I don't know what the case was on every US flagged merchant, but on British merchants the sailor's pay stopped when the ship was reported sunk. At least if you were a USN sailor in the Naval Armed Guard unit on a merchant that caught a torpedo amidships, if you were bobbing around the Atlantic in a lifeboat awaiting rescue, you were at least doing it on the government's dime.

quote:

Originally posted by China Fleet Sailor:
If you're not an officially designated killer, you don't capture the popular imagination. Nobody's going to make a movie about you..

Not so fast.

Although, he did get to do a little Lewis gun work above decks too, I guess.



On a more serious note. A great uncle of mine-
Chief (WT) Jasper Clarence McCartney - USS Cassin Young DD 793- Killed in Action 30 July 1945 by a kamikaze attack that hit just below the forward stack right at the water line at 0345. The crew had the fires out and the ship underway in 20 minutes. The ship is permanently moored today next to Old Ironsides at Charleston Yard in Boston. One of the last Fletcher Class destroyers in existence.

China Fleet Sailor, don't know about wearing peacoats but as one who worked in the blackgang or in the hole. We felt like moles when we came up on deck every so often to get some fresh air.Grungy dungarees, oil and sweat stained shirts
and boondockers we called steamers. Sometimes the guys who got extra duty in other departments would get lucky and get their extra duty in one of the enginerooms. Got chewed out a few times about our uniforms that we wore while working in the hole. One officer came down
to our engineroom took one look and went back up the ladder. One memorable occasion while eating midrats some airdales sounded off "snipes
sxxk" Our cheif engineering officer was a full captain. When he stood up you could hear a pin drop. Next day the airdales found out what working in a enginroom was all about. Frank