I know nothing about these. But, with the price of the rifles and ammo I just think it would be a fun rifle to own. I've owned a few surplus rifles over the years and really enjoyed most of them.

I've been looking at the ones from J&G and Aimsurplus. You can get a "hand select" for bore condition at J&G for an extra $30 which might be worth the extra expense, I dunno.

Any advice from those in the know would be greatly appreciated. Are there certain models to look for or avoid? Same with the ammo.

Let's just say I got an average example and bought a 440rnd can of surplus ammo. What kind of accuracy could one expect?

Terry

I'm interested in the response to this thread as well. I've been watching Aim Surplus for about a year while I debate getting a "Curio and Relics" license so I can have it mailed right to my house. I mean a rifle with ballistics close to a 30-06 for $69.95 an extra $10 for hand picked. Even if it ends up being a paperweight I haven't wasted a lot of money but I would like something I could get deer and Elk with.

I think the Mosin Nagant rifles are a great buy. I have a few of them around the house, and enjoy taking them out to the range. The accuracy of the rifle is generally related to their bore groove diameter which can vary generally between .311-.314", and the how the bullet you are shooting out of the gun measures in comparison.
I think most Mosins, with the properly matched bullet, should be able to shoot within 2" at 100 yards. The triggers aren't the best, but if you do some searching on the Internet, articles can be found on how to accurize the rifles cheaply. Consider checking out surplusrifleforums.com

*Edit
As far as the hand select option goes, I have never used it, but the Mosins I have ordered through JGSales were in great condition and shot well.

I have had one for years and use it when I go to my standard 80 acre spot. I use the iron sights because where I hunt it is quite brushy.

They have a long military history and are usually very accurate. Here is a good site with a lot of information on them:

http://7.62x54r.net/

One odd thing about mine is that it is most accurate when the bayonet is extended.

It looks a bit unusual walking around with a bayonet extended but the bayonet can save a finishing off shot and it gives trespassers something else to think about if you run into one.

I bought a big sealed can of ammo with it. The ammo comes separated in numbers that fit into the standard pouch and is wrapped in pink paper tied with a string. It is obviously hand wrapped. Every time I pull the string on one I think of the Russian women and children who must have wrapped it.

When the rifle fires this ammo it shoots out a flame about 3 feet long.

This rifle is fun and unusual - sort of like an improved black powder rifle.

Palmer is yours a 44? I've heard that they have to have their bayonet extended to shoot straight.

Skipper,
Yes mine is a M44. It is an Izhevsk model. It looks like the markings on TC1's rifle might be the same - I can't see it all. It will be interesting to learn how his shoots.

From what little I have read all M44's were sighted in with the bayonet extended (The carbine was originally conceived as an urban combat rifle).

Reportedly some can shoot just as well with the bayonet stowed as they do with it extended while other M44's can be a foot off (usually to the right) at 100 yds when the bayonet is stowed.

Mine is very accurate. I have no doubt that if one were to mount a scope and work up some hand loads it would shoot MOA.

Drifting the front sight to correct for the stowed bayonet can be a challenge. It fits tight.

I want to get the 31' model then strip it down and sporterize it to make it look like a hunting rifle instead of an old combat rifle. Still arguing with myself about a composite or wood stock though the composite has weight and cost advantages the wood can look downright beautiful.

Many have been back to the arsnel for rework and are quite servicable. However if there is "2" engraved on top of the receiver or barrel near the receiver, it indicates that the rifling might not be as accurate as normal. Should you happen to get one of these, you can counter bore the muzzle or simply cut off some of the barrel. I cut 8" from the barrel of mine and improved the accuracy tremendously (from 4" groups at 100 yds to 1" groups).

There are many sources of ways to have fun with the rifles on the internet, including making the trigger adjustable, turning down the bolt handle and generally making a less than $100 rifle into a fun and economical project.

Gunsmithing 101: buy a Mosin Nagant and a hacksaw

Gunsmithing 102: buy another Mosin Nagant and some more tools and try again.

My brother and brother in law both have one, and they're cheap and fun to shoot. I'll probably end up with a couple sooner or later when I get the itch at a gun show.

If you ever tire of the cartridge, I have seen quite a few rebarreled in 40-65 and 45-70, and they really look nice in a sporter stock. A friend had one done using a hex receiver, tapered octagon barrel with rib. Looks like a couple thousand dollar custom rifle.

Rich

Pipe with a turn bolt!

Unless you get a collector piece...... or want an inexpensive truck gun......

Thinking of chamber conversion/rebarelling ? The action is a piece of crap... don't waste your time and money!

Either shoot it as is....... or forget it!

very sturdy piece of pipe.

Rich

I bought one that looks brand new from stem to stern dated 1952. The dealer didn't know anything about it as it was part of an estate sale and the price was $125 including a fixed cruciform bayonet with a screwdriver type point. Definitely new manufacture and not a collector...markings indicate a Polish made rifle...damgood quality tho'.

As far as accuracy goes you just have to shoot it with and without the bayonet extended to see which way it shoots best.

There are several good Moisan sites including Surplus Rifles with lots of good information on stripping, scopes, loads etc. http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/ has a lot of history...I lost most of my M-N URLS by 'puter crash or I would include them.

http://www.mosinnagant.net/Boltman/Boltman.html[/url] is a good place for bolt reconfiguring.

Mine shoots best with 0.311" bullets but to be sure you have to slug the bore as they had pretty bad quality control with some rifles at some dates, and as with all rifle YOU have to do the work to get the accuracy.

Ballistics wise, it's close enough to a 308 to make it sweat...it will take most N.A. game...snf it sure shot the HE** out of the Germans during the Stalingrad siege.

I like mine, it's as pretty as you want it to be...beauty is in the eye of the beholder...and for the price you can't beat it with a stick.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by RonE:
Many have been back to the arsnel for rework and are quite servicable. However if there is "2" engraved on top of the receiver or barrel near the receiver, it indicates that the rifling might not be as accurate as normal.

02 is Hungarian, not a bad bore/ barrel. If you had an 02 stamped 91/30, M44, and cut it, you just bubba'd a hard to find rifle.
An 02 stamped 91/30 is the rarest of them all.

This is from Mick Toal:
Hungarian M/52 sniper rifles are the rarest examples of the PU family, and, since standard Hungarian 91/30 rifles are even rarer than their scoped cousins, the author is not aware of any counterfeit examples. They are readily recognized by their higher standard of manufacture, a deeper blue/black finish of all metal, and a profusion of “02” (apparently the Eastern Bloc designation for Hungarian manufactured weaponry) stamps on just about every component of the weapon - right down to the shaft of the cleaning rod. Unlike their Russian cousins, the author has found no evidence of any number being stamped on the left side of the chamber, likewise the scope mount components – which also display finer attention to detail during manufacture - are generally unmarked, save for customary “02” stamps.

quote:

Originally posted by Jpat:

quote:

Originally posted by RonE:
Many have been back to the arsnel for rework and are quite servicable. However if there is "2" engraved on top of the receiver or barrel near the receiver, it indicates that the rifling might not be as accurate as normal.

02 is Hungarian, not a bad bore/ barrel. If you had an 02 stamped 91/30, M44, and cut it, you just bubba'd a hard to find rifle.
An 02 stamped 91/30 is the rarest of them all.

This is from Mick Toal:
Hungarian M/52 sniper rifles are the rarest examples of the PU family, and, since standard Hungarian 91/30 rifles are even rarer than their scoped cousins, the author is not aware of any counterfeit examples. They are readily recognized by their higher standard of manufacture, a deeper blue/black finish of all metal, and a profusion of “02” (apparently the Eastern Bloc designation for Hungarian manufactured weaponry) stamps on just about every component of the weapon - right down to the shaft of the cleaning rod. Unlike their Russian cousins, the author has found no evidence of any number being stamped on the left side of the chamber, likewise the scope mount components – which also display finer attention to detail during manufacture - are generally unmarked, save for customary “02” stamps.

Look at me and read my lips: "Engraved", as in electro pencil, not "stamped"

I refer you to www.7.62X54R.net

Terry, I have had several M/Ns and they are plenty of gun for the money. The local Big 5 sporting store here runs them all the time for $69-$109. When I go in I ask to go look over the inventory in the back and will take the best one. They usually let me, so I get to "hand select"!

The biggest fault I find in them is the safety...after much trial I have decided when hunting to load it and lift the bolt handle when stalking, then lower handle to shoot. But to each his own. I bought a heavily sporterized Rusky M/N from a Detective who was shooting high power, he had cut the barrel, replaced the sights with Remington, NICE fiber stock, replaced bolt handle w/ turndown. It shoots .308 bullets into very nice groups. It is neglected in the back of the safe...I'm gonna get it out now...thanks.

Eterry

Big 5 is selling the 91/30 for $99 right now. The ad didn't mention if you get all the "stuff" -- a bayo, ammo pouches, oil can, cleaning kit.

The octagon receiver is interesting if you can find one. There's a Mosin site online (Tuco's) that discusses arsenal production, markings, different models. I had the M-44 w/ bayo, all matching numbers. Traded it at a gun show. I bought a 91/30 from Big 5 several years ago, probably $79.99. I bought a case of ammo, have half of it remaining.

It's a fun gun, but I like the 8mm Mausers more. Mauser bolt design is much more refined, nicer wood, generally a nicer gun. Nobody builds custom rifles off a Mosin action, but there are lots of nice custom rifles w/ Mauser actions.

quote:

It's a fun gun, but I like the 8mm Mausers more.

True, but if you have one of each they are fun to shoot and compare as opponents' weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by Rothke:
It's a fun gun, but I like the 8mm Mausers more. Mauser bolt design is much more refined, nicer wood, generally a nicer gun. Nobody builds custom rifles off a Mosin action, but there are lots of nice custom rifles w/ Mauser actions.

I have a few custom Mausers and love them. I just wanted something that was fun to plink with. I own 2 Mosins now and I've had a great time with them so far. One is kinda nice for a Mosin and the other is rough as a corn cob

I would never consider costomizing one. That said, they're a lot of fun just as they are. I say I wouldn't customize but I sort of did. I bought a 91/30 and M44 recently and a repro PU scope and mount. I installed PU scope on the 91/30 so I guess I did customize it a little. I still have less than $350 in the rifle though

To me fun is where you find it and I think these are fun rifles.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by RonE:

quote:

Originally posted by Jpat:

quote:

Originally posted by RonE:
Many have been back to the arsnel for rework and are quite servicable. However if there is "2" engraved on top of the receiver or barrel near the receiver, it indicates that the rifling might not be as accurate as normal.

02 is Hungarian, not a bad bore/ barrel. If you had an 02 stamped 91/30, M44, and cut it, you just bubba'd a hard to find rifle.
An 02 stamped 91/30 is the rarest of them all.

This is from Mick Toal:
Hungarian M/52 sniper rifles are the rarest examples of the PU family, and, since standard Hungarian 91/30 rifles are even rarer than their scoped cousins, the author is not aware of any counterfeit examples. They are readily recognized by their higher standard of manufacture, a deeper blue/black finish of all metal, and a profusion of “02” (apparently the Eastern Bloc designation for Hungarian manufactured weaponry) stamps on just about every component of the weapon - right down to the shaft of the cleaning rod. Unlike their Russian cousins, the author has found no evidence of any number being stamped on the left side of the chamber, likewise the scope mount components – which also display finer attention to detail during manufacture - are generally unmarked, save for customary “02” stamps.

Look at me and read my lips: "Engraved", as in electro pencil, not "stamped"

I refer you to www.7.62X54R.net

Never have seen this "engraved" "2" on a receiver or barrel. Please post a pic of one of yours. I would appreciate it. BTW, if you continue to by a moron, I will happily discredit you. Learn how to spell you inbred @ss.